What would you do? | FerrariChat

What would you do?

Discussion in 'Mondial' started by Dizengoff, Oct 27, 2015.

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  1. Dizengoff

    Dizengoff Formula Junior

    Nov 24, 2011
    625
    Chicago
    I recently took my '88 Mondial to be serviced by a local independent mechanic here in Chicago. He specializes in vintage Italian cars, and got his start at a race prep shop in Sicily working with Targa Florio machines. He's highly regarded and highly recommended.

    I was given an estimate to replace the distributor, which I approved. Upon picking up the car yesterday, I was surprised to see the bill was almost double what I had been quoted. There were several items in the bill that I neither approved nor been made aware of. They were silly "fluff" items obviously included as a way to pad the bill.

    For example, they replaced a window switch for $200 that I didn't need. They didn't even use a switch that matched the car! They 'tuned' the carbs (which were tuned by this same shop in March during my Spring service). Stuff like that.

    Under Chicago Municipal code, a mechanic can't exceed 15% of the estimate. If further work needs to be done, a new estimate needs to be written. The mechanic in question KNOWS this. It's printed on his receipts and posted on the wall inside his shop.

    I politely protested the bill, citing the municipal code. I told him that I didn't need or want these "repairs". The owner and his wife became furious and told me they wouldn't release the car unless the bill was paid.

    I decided to go ahead and pay the bill just to get my car back. But I'm furious about this. I'm considering either contacting American Express or filing a complaint with the city. As much as I hate petty municipal bureaucracies I feel that a strong message needs to be sent.

    What do you think? How would you handle this?
     
  2. Wade

    Wade Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Mar 31, 2006
    32,793
    East Central, FL
    Full Name:
    Wade O.
    I think they were trying to Shanghai your car.

    But yeah, I'd be really pissed as well. However, it sounds like you did (and are doing) the right thing.

    Plus, word of mouth advertising work both ways (good and bad).
     
  3. gsfent

    gsfent Formula 3

    Nov 16, 2009
    1,096
    PB County, Florida
    Full Name:
    Jerry
    I know how you feel.

    I would have threatened to get a lawyer and file suit for fraud, theft, and anything else I can think of. Most states have some strict rules (as you acknowledge) and you probably can post a bond to get your car back. And in most states, tricking someone into paying for something can also be criminal (larceny by trick, or whatever Illinois has) which is a crime. If you press hard enough the local district attorney will follow through. The shops legal fees will probably be way more than the entire bill. Justice.

    Is it cheaper to pay the bill? Probably. But I would have written "paid under protest" and then gone the legal route.

    Regards,
    Jerry
     
  4. Alden

    Alden F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 25, 2010
    2,903
    Central Florida
    #4 Alden, Oct 27, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2015
    Your car is fuel injected and does not have "carbs."

    If you paid them twice to "tune" them, then they have defrauded you bigtime.

    When I was a scrawny 18 year old, I watched a burly mechanic fake putting a second can of freon in my car's AC system. He screwed the second can onto the installation adapter, but I noticed that he failed to pierce the can with the screw down point on top of the adapter. Then he did the entire routine of shaking the can and feeling the pipes, etc to make it look like he was putting the stuff in my car. He handed me a bill for 2 cans of freon and labor. He screwed me for $5, the cost of a can of R12 at the time. I knew what he had done, but was too young and green to object. I paid the bill, feeling very upset at my situation. I have never really trusted any automotive mechanic since.
    Alden
     
  5. Wade

    Wade Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Mar 31, 2006
    32,793
    East Central, FL
    Full Name:
    Wade O.
    Dizi has an awesome hot rod Mondial with 4 downdraft 2 barrel carburetors. Webbers, I believe.
     
  6. Dizengoff

    Dizengoff Formula Junior

    Nov 24, 2011
    625
    Chicago
    I have an inherent distrust of auto mechanics. I figured this guy was above the sort of nonsense he pulled on me. He actually had the nerve to try to tell me that the window switches gum up inside and have to be replace. I told him that was untrue; I've fixed them before and this one had no issues.

    Wade is right. My Mondial has Weber 44's.
     
  7. dfranzen

    dfranzen Formula 3
    Owner

    Aug 31, 2013
    1,577
    Ponte Vedra Beach , FL
    Full Name:
    Don Franzen
    File it Small claims court, but only after you have sent them a registered written letter to "refund" you the difference
    it takes time but it can work

    Also post their name here and on Yelp
     
  8. rob

    rob F1 Rookie

    May 22, 2002
    4,130
    Vt
    No mechanic should ever do any work on your car that has not been authorized by the owner. How can they justify something like replacing a window switch when you brought the car in for ignition work?
     
  9. MvT

    MvT F1 Rookie

    May 25, 2013
    4,248
    The Netherlands - NH
    Full Name:
    Tijn
    Sorry to hear this! Call Amex and they usually get your money back. This way you have less paperwork (knowing from experience)
     
  10. stekkefun4

    stekkefun4 Formula 3
    BANNED

    Nov 22, 2006
    2,232
    Belgium - Europe
    Yeah, that's the theory...

    Personally, I was over at a well known garage in Belgium 2 days ago to inspect the repairs on an oil leak around the cylinder head gasket on my Mondial T. Turned out the mechanic repainted both cylinder head covers in red shrink paint ! The guy was even complaining this costed him one full day - for crying out loud !!!

    Very nice of these people because I didn't even ask for it ! I feel some good ol' style customer<->garage mobsters discussion coming... I'll just thank them for this nice extra unpaid service LOL
     
  11. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    33,736
    Austin TX
    Full Name:
    Brian Crall
    I have met more Italian race car mechanics in the US fixing cars than ever lived. To me after nearly 40 years in the Ferrari business that alone is a huge red flag. It is used to create credibility where none exists otherwise more often than most know and in the business it is a pretty common standing joke.

    Your car has no distributors per se. It does have distributor caps. Makes me wonder what he did there.

    In most places how he handled this was illegal and it is bad business everywhere.


    If it happened as you described he screwed you whether he set out to do so or not. Again, if it went down the way you say you tried to solve the problem when you picked up the car. I'd challenge the charges with your credit card then call him to renegotiate. Assuming some of the work was wanted and done properly you owe for that and he should be paid for that.
     
  12. 2NA

    2NA F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner Professional Ferrari Technician

    Dec 29, 2006
    18,214
    Twin Cities
    Full Name:
    Tim Keseluk
    LOL! I've met a few as well. Meh!

    Probably a legend in his own mind. ;)
     
  13. Alden

    Alden F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 25, 2010
    2,903
    Central Florida
    This shows complete lack of respect for both you and the originality of the car. Next time they might "fix" it with duct tape and bailing wire.

    I hate to pile on here, maybe these folks were good, honest mechanics at one time, but I think they have fallen over the edge into taking the customer for whatever they can get.

    The fact that repairs to our cars are expensive to begin with and some owners are not well informed about stuff like window switches and that you can "fix" them with a $2 shot of contact cleaner adds to their ability to pad the bill.

    The fact that they got angry (and the Wife was in on it too) instead of discussing the matter in a business like way says to me that they know they were in the wrong and p*ssed that you called them on it.

    I would PM their name to everyone that responds to this thread too.
    Alden
     
  14. Dizengoff

    Dizengoff Formula Junior

    Nov 24, 2011
    625
    Chicago
    Thanks for the suggestions. It was my intention to be as respectful as possible to the owners and employees of the company while challenging the basis for the unapproved charges--a rude demeanor in situations like this gets nothing done. Unfortunately my politeness got nothing done either.

    My car actually has a Mallory distributor and rotor; along with Weber 44's I'm running a Norwood modified setup with MSD ignition.

    I've been trying to figure out how exactly to approach the issue...I posted a review on Yelp, I plan to file a complaint with the city, and I am planning to contact Amex. I didn't wish to charge back the entire amount because a good portion was a valid, agreed upon amount. They performed work that was agreed upon, and they deserve to be paid for that work.

    But if I can't do a partial charge back I guess I'll do a full charge back and mail them a check (along with the window switch) for the original agreed-upon amount.

    FWIW, the shop in question is Auto Sprint...I hesitated to mention them initially. If you ask around Chicago (or even visit the Chicago subsection of this forum) you'll hear loads of praise and accolades for this particular shop. The behavior I experienced came as a surprise, and I feel it's completely beneath them.
     
  15. davemqv

    davemqv F1 Rookie

    Aug 28, 2014
    3,097
    USA
    Full Name:
    Dave
    I agree with everyone else. Stop payment with Amex, cut them a cheque for what you actually owe (maybe estimate +15%), then file with Yelp, BBB, Google reviews, etc. Write them a letter explaining why you're doing it. If by chance they go out of their way to make it right you can always amend the reviews to reflect that. I'd like to know who it is as well, in case I ever need a mechanic in Chicago. If what you're saying is true you should post their name on the forum (ideally along with a scan of the estimate and the final charge). My 2¢.
     
  16. Dizengoff

    Dizengoff Formula Junior

    Nov 24, 2011
    625
    Chicago
    Thanks.

    I posted their name in the post above yours. Auto Sprint. If you research them you'll find they are esteemed here in Chicago. If you ask for recommendations from local Italian car owners it's very likely that Auto Sprint will be mentioned. Personally speaking I will go out of my way not to have to return there.
     
  17. srephwed

    srephwed F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 29, 2012
    6,450
    street,md
    Full Name:
    fred brown
    I do work for people with John Deere equipment. Farmers, landscapers, residential, etc. I sometimes have been my worst enemy because if I told someone it would cost a hundred dollars to fix it and it was one hundred and fifty. The bill would be one hundred dollars. The trick to keeping customers is not to run them off!!!! It is the world we live in now. Seems everyone is trying to take advantage of people.
     
  18. davemqv

    davemqv F1 Rookie

    Aug 28, 2014
    3,097
    USA
    Full Name:
    Dave
    There are times when things come up during a repair or service and legitimately cost more to deal with than the estimate, sometimes lots more, but then a phone call is in order to discuss the situation before moving ahead. But the story here is that a mechanic not only greatly exceeded the estimate, but did so by doing a bunch of work that was neither requested nor wanted. That's a different story.
     
  19. theunissenguido

    theunissenguido Formula 3
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Jan 21, 2004
    2,371
    Argent/Brasil
    Full Name:
    Guido
    I hope you received the old switch back...otherwise it will apear on Ebay for 400 $.

    Guido
     
  20. stekkefun4

    stekkefun4 Formula 3
    BANNED

    Nov 22, 2006
    2,232
    Belgium - Europe
    As always, Guido, very down to earth :)
     
  21. bartzagato

    bartzagato Formula Junior

    Aug 7, 2010
    614
    Belgium
    Full Name:
    Bart
    As everybody allready mentioned: reclaim from Amex and pay the propriate amount after a phonecall. (and ask back your old switch. Do they cost that much?????)

    When I was young, I blew the headgasket of my Alfa Romeo. Since I was a lazy stundent, I was willing to pay 15000BEF (which is approx 372€) for the renewal quoted by the nearby dealer. For that amount I couldn't do it myself. He rang me later that the cylinderhead was cracked beyond repair. I had another cylinderhead he could have. I knew the extra work that was needed (prepping other head + leaktest & stuff) costed extra. I phoned the guy several times (several is more than 5) for the corrected quote. I couldn't answer it, but said all the time: "don't worry, it will not be that much more".
    After 1 week he called me back: car is ready. At that time, he didn't figured it out 'how much'.
    I entered the shop, he gave me the invoice: 50000BEF (1250€). I was not amused; but needed to pay before leaving with the car.
    I swore to myself never to enter his shop again and would tell my story to everyone around.
    Later in my life: I worked at a main dealer Alfa Romeo and he had to work with me (not other way around). Every time he needed me for something, I made it very hard for him. V-E-R-Y H-A-R-D. And still proud of it. :D
    I can tell you: Karma was a serious b*tch. ;)
     
  22. Rapalyea

    Rapalyea Formula 3

    Jun 18, 2013
    1,511
    Georgia Mountains US
    Full Name:
    David Rapalyea alias
    Back in the old days I believe I remember a mechanic telling me he should grease my muffler bearings.
     
  23. davemqv

    davemqv F1 Rookie

    Aug 28, 2014
    3,097
    USA
    Full Name:
    Dave
    That's sounds more like something you'd hear in a "massage parlour". haha
     
  24. MvT

    MvT F1 Rookie

    May 25, 2013
    4,248
    The Netherlands - NH
    Full Name:
    Tijn
    hahahaha! what goes around comes around ;)
     
  25. ace_pilot

    ace_pilot Formula Junior

    Sep 6, 2007
    916
    Long Island, NY
    Full Name:
    George
    I have never, and I repeat, never had a mechanic I can trust. That's actually how I got into fixing my own cars in college. Fast forward to my 328, that I had performed the service with Bill Pollard, up there in Connecticut. Not only was he highly recommended on this forum, he was also personally recommended by a friend. Well, after taking about three months on a major, I got the car back and it looked like it was done by a monkey. The bearings howled in the cold, the water pump had gasket sealant all over the edges, a missing screw was on the rear bonnet that later turned up as I started the car, original hose clamps replaced with cheap aftermarket parts, and the list go on and on....
    Like I said...never trust an auto mechanic unless you're there to watch him work.

    We should start a list of bad mechanics on this forum so people don't go to them.

    Ace
     

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