What to look for when buying....?

Find a qualified pre purchase inspector. Get it up in the air and scrutinize the underside. Look for rust, oil and water leaks, previous body damage. Check the tires for uneven wear patterns. Take a hard look at the exhaust system, big bucks to replace. Examine suspension arms and bushings,struts. Look for any signs of grease from wheel seals/brearings.

After lowering the car examine all body seams for fit. All door openings should be straight and even as well as trunk and hood. Doors should open and close with ease and should fit tightly. Look for rust around the skuttle cowl below the windshield.

These are the very basic exterior issues, it goes without saying you should be able to judge the interior by visualization and feel. Along the way checking all windows for fit and operation. While you are cruising around the interior check out the function of the switches, lights, headlight motors, heating and cooling systems.

Now start the motor and listen for the initial sounds of the starter and motor at start up. Check the gauges, especially the oil presssure, should run in excess of 6 bars cold. Once the motor is up to operating temp 90 degrees coolant 100 degrees oil, watch the idle oil pressure should be 3+ bars at hot idle.

I have found it a good idea to add some flourescent dye to the motor oil and let it run up to tempurature, then use a black light to see any oil leaks around the motor. Its also a good idea to add a flourescent dye to the cooling sytem and using the same black light look for coolant leaks around hose connections, water pump, and radiator. It won't take very long for the dye to show up and pin point the leaks. Leaks can be damn expensive.

Then the road test which is a personal opinion of how it reacts under speed. There are many more avenues to explore but others can add those.

Good Luck,

Howard Musolf
1981 308gtsi
1982 400i Cabriolet
1988 Lotus Esprit Turbo
2 many brass era cars

 

nice driver, never any problems


http://www.angelscars.se/index.php/forsale/item/97-ferrari-412i-1988

 

This month's copy of the UK magazine 'Classic Cars' has got a three page buyer's guide for the 400 range. Pretty good. Worth a look.

 

Dying Breed?? They were made in very sparing quantities and given their current market value, not worth restoring. Therefore the 400/412 more than practically any other Ferrari requires you to do the math in advance. It is always substantially cheaper to buy the cleanest, tightest, lowest mileage, most documented car you can find. The difference in price between the very best and the typical worn used cars is less than the price of a single major repair.

While you certainly can find very cheap cars and probably have some fun for a few years, the very best cars are still very, very cheap and will usually (never say never) require far less expense to keep on the road.

In general the engines are pretty robust, but the fuel injection, electrics and suspension can be a problem on even the best examples.

More than anything- DRIVE as many as you physically can. I found that almost all of the cars for sale in the USA during a 1 year period were running poorly, and the sellers had no idea.

 

It is a good article. There are a few things it misses, such as the price and availability of 'silly' things like the amber/white side lamp clusters. These often get cracks and discoloration , and can cost a lot to replace, even for cheap imitations. Ditto the glass, windscreen and rear screen in particular. Lots of mention of these in various threads in this forum, but glossed over in the atricle. Otherwise, a very fair description of the merits of the car.

 

For the 400/412 series in particular, the basic drivetrain components are very strong and should last a long time if the car has been maintained well. The GM automatic transmissions are very strong, handle the power without trouble and are easily rebuilt if needed. The 5 speed transmissions are strong and will last long if not abused. Repairs of abused transmissions can get expensive. These transmissions require firm and deliberate shifting and the 1st to 2nd gear shift can graunch when the car is started up from cold. It should be fine after warm-up and the shifter should move smoothly, if not overly quickly, between gears. The clutches seem to be strong and not a weak point.

The electrical system on the 400i (and maybe the 412 as well) is a weak point with a particular trouble area being in the fuse and relay panel that is located underneath the carpet in the front passenger footwell. The problem is connections that loosen over time, creating heat and ultimately failed connections. Have this checked to see if there are any burned areas beneath the panel. Stronger, new replacement fuse panels are available in the aftermarket for about $1,300 plus labor and can cure a host of general electrical gremlins that might be present.

The self-leveling rear suspension could develop leaks, particularly if the car has not been used regularly. Check to see if the car is level from front to back when running. A little settling after the car has been sitting for a while is not unusual or a cause for concern but it should level out pretty quickly upon start-up. The Koni self leveler shocks are NLA and I believe that Koni still does not offer rebuilding on these items. There are a couple of independent rebuilders but I have heard mixed reviews about how long these rebuilds last. A conversion to a more conventional coil over and shock setup has been done on some cars.

Almost all 400is and some early 412s have the metric TRX wheels and tires. These wheels limit the choice of tires to basically the Michelin TRX tires which are now running about $600/tire to replace and are often back ordered from Coker Tire. Because of the low miles that these cars are driven each year, the vast majority of cars are likely to have good tread on the tires but the tires will be old, sometimes very old, as in original. Check the dates on the tires and factor in tire replacement as part of the price negotiations. At current TRX prices, the cost of buying new 15 or 16 inch wheels with your choice of modern rubber is a very logical alternative if you plan to keep the car for any length of time.

The front suspension bushings may need attention as these are heavy cars. It is not a big deal to replace the bushings, but it will cost around $3K or so.

These engines have a timing chain, which is durable, adjustable and does not wear out from time like the rubber cambelts do. They seem to last about 60,000 miles before needing replacement although opinions are divided on this with some people saying that an earlier replacement is needed. If the chain is quiet in operation or can be adjusted to be quiet in operation (not too difficult with an adjustment screw on the front of the engine) then it is okay for the time being until the next adjustment is needed. Replace the chain when there is no more room on the adjuster to take up the slack from chain stretch. While some say that the chain can be replaced with the engine in the car, it might be easier to do an engine out for the replacement.

The Bosch fuel injection is one of the strong points in these cars in that they are reliable and parts are readily available since so many other cars in the period also used them.

No particular problems with the exhaust system except that there is a lot of it with the long run from the front engine out to the back. A replacement stainless steel exhaust system is about $6K on these cars.

That's about it for specific items to look out for on the 400i/412 series, aside from all of the usual items that you need to watch out for on any car for which the youngest examples now are more than 20 years old.

A lot of the problems on these cars are caused by a combination of a lack of regular driving and by deferred maintenance. Try to find one that has had a reasonably well known ownership chain and with some good service history.

All dollar amounts here are ballpark estimates and others may have more accurate information on current costs.

Good luck in your search and have fun doing it!

 

You have a PM.

 

I find all of this advice valuable. However, sometimes you just find a Ferrari, and you go for it.

I have just done that.
I have seen it and I have bought it! 400i automatic.

I still have to fetch it and study it in detail, but undoubtedly, some surprises are in store.

I find some of the advice a bit academic. It is often a matter of taking what you are offered, or not, as there are no alternatives.

So whereas in some places there might be a chance of being able to choose between alternatives, and then go for the least molested, here there is one car, take it or leave it.

So I took it! ;-)

I know the car has been standing for a number of years, and when it was parked, it was because of a fueling problem on the one bank, so sounds like filter or pump or supply fuel or power.
Another problem is there are no ignition key, only a key for the petrol cap.

So I guess the first order of call is to remove a door lock barrel and have some keys cut!

Then go through the car in small steps.

Luckily I am mechanically minded, and have a small arsenal of fabrication options. If it does not exist, I will in many cases be able to make it.

Can't wait.!

 

So I took it! ;-)

Well done that man, also if your a bit mechanically minded it aint going to bite! best of luck with it. One things for sure its a hell of a lot less complicated than any newish car.
Regards
Alastair

 

If you haven't read all of the post above, have a look.
You are not the first down the "one bank running" path.
<www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=291053>
Greg

 

Every time I see a GTA pop up I think "Gads, Mike is probably just shaking his head."

But....

Truth is, he and his site are good inputs to any buying or selling decision. Not absolutes. Use it to establish a depth of book.

As a Mondi t cab owner, I sort of have a thing for convertible conversion of the 4xx series. Apols to those offended by such butchery, but hey -- I didn't cut the darn top off!

 

Sorry everyone. Multitab browser catastrophe. Please ignore last post.