What is a 'real' Bugatti? | FerrariChat

What is a 'real' Bugatti?

Discussion in 'Bugatti' started by eric t, Sep 7, 2009.

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  1. eric t

    eric t Karting

    Sep 23, 2007
    98
    Question for the real Buggatist(google spelling) pur sang ;
    Do you consider the modern,post Ettore Bugatti cars,e.g. Veyron and other VW-Bugattis to be real Bugattis?
     
  2. El Wayne

    El Wayne F1 World Champ
    Staff Member Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Aug 1, 2002
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    Although they are all technically and legally "Bugattis" in name, the cars produced by the original company are what come to mind when I think of Bugatti. This would include cars built after Ettore's death (Type 101, 251, etc). I guess you could say that, to me at least, these are "real" Bugattis.

    The EB110, being built by a completely new Italian-based company (Bugatti Automobili SpA) that had no connection to the original company other than the name and logo (purchased by Romano Artioli), is something else entirely. I would say the same for the Veyron and future projects from Bugatti Automobiles SAS/Volkswagen AG.
     
  3. 2NA

    2NA F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner Professional Ferrari Technician

    Dec 29, 2006
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    Tim Keseluk
    "Real" Bugattis were French built (shocking but true ;)) and had nothing to do with the Italian/German things we've seen recently.
     
  4. camchain

    camchain Formula Junior

    Feb 12, 2004
    569
    Denver
    Full Name:
    Ron Hetherington
    Well, actually the Bugattis built in Alsace prior to the "first war to end all wars" were built in Germany. Along with neighboring Lorraine, Alsace was annexed by Germany in 1871 after the Franco-Prussian War and returned to France by the Treaty of Versailles (1919).
     
  5. 2NA

    2NA F1 World Champ
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    Dec 29, 2006
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    Tim Keseluk
    Mere politics, I doubt the folks there felt any more or less French.
     
  6. eric t

    eric t Karting

    Sep 23, 2007
    98
    They were Europeans!!
     
  7. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

    Feb 22, 2003
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    Russ Turner
    Not if you asked them, non?
    :)
     
  8. eric t

    eric t Karting

    Sep 23, 2007
    98
    #8 eric t, Sep 8, 2009
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2009
    Mais oui,certainement!! Europeans are very patriotic. First of all they'll say they're French or Dutch, etc, but then they'll also say they're proud to be European,especially when confronted with the 'evil non European rest of the world', the Yanks, the Asians,the Africans. LOL, just kidding, I'm not starting WWIII!! (Taking cover for incoming flak)
    BTW,right spelling is 'Bugattiste'.
     
  9. nthfinity

    nthfinity F1 Veteran

    Mar 21, 2005
    7,467
    South East MI
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    Isaac not Issac
    Basically copied Miller race engines... No better than the Chinese of today ;)
     
  10. eric t

    eric t Karting

    Sep 23, 2007
    98
    And still, almost everything we use is made in China or contains parts that are made in China.
     
  11. Il Vecchio

    Il Vecchio F1 Rookie

    Dec 27, 2007
    2,572
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    Peter B.
    Er, I'll agree that the T51/T54/T57 heads were influenced by Miller's DOCH design. Just don't buy the SOHC engins being influenced much by anything.

    As an example, how many non-Bugatti 3-valve engines were in series production before WWII?

    I think that Ettore followed his own path, IMHO.
     
  12. odin

    odin Karting

    Nov 22, 2007
    52
    Not true,
    The Swiss invented the DOHC Engines in France, the French built them first, Americans, of German Origin copied them, the Italians, made them better, lighter and more powerful and the Germans converted them into Milestones.
    Bugatti copied an american Copy, of an french Engine.
    After some wierd Bugatti inventions, he copied an Isotta Fraschini Type Fenc and had his Type 13, financed by a german bank in Germany. The Lorraine and Alsac Region was a playground in Europe, cause of its coal mines, belonging more than 700 Years to Germany.
    After first WW, Bugatti was without debts and produced his Cars with lots of financial help, by the French Goverment and started so gaining importance in racing, while Ballot, Delage and Talbot, who had far superior Racing Cars, nearly broke. There is to much invented myth in Bugatti History, same with Ferrari, but it sells.
    Regards
    Jorg
     
  13. nthfinity

    nthfinity F1 Veteran

    Mar 21, 2005
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    Isaac not Issac
    I'll admit, I am only blessed with somewhat low amounts of reading and research in pre-war cars; but this I know. Enzo Ferrari himself would never have built the engines he did if it weren't for my great grandfather; and his loud, and fast V12 showing the Italians what engine inginuity will do. (the first production V12... the story is written about in Forza in Oct. 2005 I believe) Long live the legend of the Packard 299!

    :)
     
  14. odin

    odin Karting

    Nov 22, 2007
    52
    That's what he said.
    But why, an ex Alfa employee, like him, who saw in Europe, some really high developed racing V12, from the 4 OHC V12 Delage, the Alfa V12 and the Mercedes V12 should really take a slow reving powerless V12 Packard engine, for example?
    Enzo was not an Engineer, but a smart businessman and he understood racing like nobody else and he lost his Job with Alfa Romeo.
    What he knew, only total wins, will earn good pricemoney, not classwinners. For his limited financal Recourses, a V12 Engine was logic. He cold bore the 125 Engine up to 275, with the same block. This was the Colombo Engine, a nice Copy from Bruno Trevisan Alfa Romeo V12 S-10 Engine. His Contrahents, Maserati and Alfa did only classwinners, which needed everytime a new engine.
    Ferrari, after he was kicked out from Alfa, and full of revenge, couldn't say the truth, so he chose Packard and the americans still love him for this.
    Regards
    Jörg
     
  15. martx-5

    martx-5 Rookie

    Dec 15, 2006
    43
    Kings Park, NY
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    Art Liefke
    You mean to tell me that Enzo LIED....how shocking!!!
     
  16. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jan 11, 2008
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    Story goes that after Ettore's passing inquiries were made to the factory about the unsold Royale(s).
    The supposed reply was "Le patron est morte, le voiture est morte aussi".
     
  17. dbw

    dbw Formula Junior

    Apr 3, 2005
    897
    palo alto ca
    Full Name:
    dave
    was it before or after bugatti's death that briggs cunningham got the royal for cash and an american icebox???
     
  18. f308jack

    f308jack F1 Rookie

    Jun 7, 2007
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    Bugatti had 2 Miller cars at the Molsheim factory in the very early thirties.

    I have no idea when the last Royale left the factory, but there were some left-over engines, 4 of which went into a train-rail vehicle, which was apparently incredibly scary to operate.
     
  19. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
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    According to Borgeson two Royales (Coupe Patron(#5) and Coupe Napolean(#1)) were taken from the factory in Molsheim to either Paris or to Bordeaux by Ettore. After the war The Berline De Voyage(#6) was also found in the family's Paris garage.
    Somewhere in the range of 160 Royale type engines (with carburator and bearing differences from the road cars) were in use in about 85 railcars. These cars used either two or four engines each and were in regular service starting in the 1930's.
     
  20. technom3

    technom3 F1 World Champ
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    Mar 29, 2007
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    Justin
    its definitely not the crap they are currently producing.
     

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