What colour is Celeste (886) | FerrariChat
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What colour is Celeste (886)

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by simonc, Jun 30, 2016.

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  1. simonc

    simonc Formula Junior

    Nov 1, 2003
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    Simon Campbell
    #1 simonc, Jun 30, 2016
    Does anyone have a photo or a link to car finished in Celeste (886). I think this is a 'sky blue' colour. It was the original colour on 1965 330GT series 1 (6777) and I want to repaint it this shade but need a sample. All help appreciated.
     
  2. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #2 Marcel Massini, Jun 30, 2016
    There was no Celeste 886.
    Chassis number 06777 was originally painted Bleu Chiaro 886. Bleu Chiaro = light/clear blue.
    Interior was Grigio VM 3230 Connolly.
    It had a light gray headliner and light gray carpets when new.

    Marcel Massini
     
  3. El Wayne

    El Wayne F1 World Champ
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    #3 El Wayne, Jun 30, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Simon, these are probably not new to you (they can be found at Kerry Chesbro's fantastic 330 GT Registry), but here's a photo of 6777 taken in 1980. It's an old and darkened photo, but the paint could be the original Blu Chiaro 86. I've posted both the original image and one with minor color/lighting correction. Perhaps someone else here can do a better job with it - by the color of the sky, it's still pretty far off.

    For comparison (light/dark), I've also included a B&W photo of 6777 which appeared in the May 1968 issue of MotorSport.

    I hope you find these helpful.
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  4. simonc

    simonc Formula Junior

    Nov 1, 2003
    884
    Herfordshire, UK
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    Simon Campbell
    #4 simonc, Jun 30, 2016
    This is getting interesting !

    I have a copy of an invoice dated 15th March 1965 from Maranello Concessionaires (UK Ferrari agent at the time, as you know) selling the car to PMB Garages and this states the car colour is Celeste 886 A.It. with light grey leather VM3230 and light grey carpets and headlining. Other documentation shows the first owner was Miss Patsy Mary Burt, a well known British lady racing driver (are they her initials in the name of PMB Garages), and the car seems quiet well known on the Internet and is shown as being 'Celeste' on Kerry's 330GT register.

    When we bought the car it was painted a very similar blue to that shown in El Wayne's photos with light grey leather and light grey carpets. We are fully restoring the car and will finish it to the original spec, I just need to find the true colour

    BTW, I think the lady in the B&W white photo might be Patsy Burt.
     
  5. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #5 Marcel Massini, Jun 30, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2016
    Maranello Concessionaires sometimes used incorrect or misleading color name descriptions. Not the first time. Factory records for 06777 say for the original color "Segue Campione" which can be translated into "follow sample" but that remark was crossed out and written over with "Bleu Chiaro 886". It doesn't really surprise me that Maranello Concessionaires then wrote "Celeste" on their invoice. Maranello Concessionaires Order Number is 188. The interior was originally planned to be "Bleu VM 3087" but that was changed to "Grigio VM 3230".

    Marcel Massini
     
  6. simonc

    simonc Formula Junior

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    884
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    Simon Campbell
    #6 simonc, Jun 30, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Amazing coincidence! El Wayne's photo of the 330GT parked next to the red 400 made we wonder if the 400 could be my car (21557) which I have owned since 1997, so I went through the history of my 400 and found i had this entry:

    12/07/81 At the Ferrari Owners Club annual Concours d'Elegance at Honnington Hall. Paul Baber remembers entering the car into a FOC Concours d'Elegance, so it was likely that it was this one. The sighting was reported by Edvar van Daalen.

    I looked at some photos Paul Baber sent me just after I bought the car in 1997 and a couple of his photos is the same as El Wayne's but from a different angle. This sent shivers down my spine, very spooky.
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  7. El Wayne

    El Wayne F1 World Champ
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    #7 El Wayne, Jun 30, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    It is: Motor Sport 196805


    The pic I posted was taken at Honnington Hall, but reportedly in 1980. (6777 was at Honnington Hall in both 1980 and 1981.) Either way, there's little doubt we're looking at the same cars, in the same position, at the same event. Your cars have met before! :)

    More:
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  8. simonc

    simonc Formula Junior

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    #8 simonc, Jun 30, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Thanks Marcel, that makes sense. One of the docs we have shows that three colour sample had been sent to Maranello from Pininfarina mentioning three paint colour samples and suggesting that Patsy Burt should change her interior colour choice as they didn't the exterior colour choices would look good with her chosen grey interior. I found these letters for sale on an eBay auction but sadly didn't manage to buy them. I did however download photos of them and these are shown below (copyright unknown)
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  9. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #9 Marcel Massini, Jul 1, 2016
    Simon: Very kool and congratulations for having these dox. These are rare. I see that even the factory on their delivery note (Rimesso No. 3641) of 29 March 1965 uses the color name Celeste instead of Bleu Chiaro 886.
    In those years there have been colors for which sometimes different names were used (for the exact same color), sometimes depending on the paint manufacturer (Italver, Glidden Salchi, Max Meyer, Glasurit, PPG, etc.). And when they used an Alfa Romeo or Lancia or Fiat color for a Ferrari the name of the color sometimes just changed (for the exact same color). That makes everything a bit tricky.

    Marcel Massini
     
  10. ted walker

    ted walker Karting

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    #10 ted walker, Jul 1, 2016
    As a matter of interest Patsy Burt had all her racing cars painted in a light Sky Blue colour and I can remember her Ferrari being painted a similar colour .Yes that his her in the photograph
     
  11. simonc

    simonc Formula Junior

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    #11 simonc, Jul 1, 2016
    Ted - Thanks for your input. Do you remember if the Ferrari was the light blue shown in El Wayne's photos?
     
  12. ted walker

    ted walker Karting

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    #12 ted walker, Jul 1, 2016
    Simon. I seem to remember it was painted her normal light blue. I will look to see if I have any photos in my archive.
     
  13. gt4me

    gt4me F1 Veteran

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    #13 gt4me, Jul 1, 2016
    I have a Classic and sportscar magazine from around 91/92 with a 330GT for sale described as "ex Patsy Burt".
     
  14. Mark Shannon

    Mark Shannon Formula 3
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    #14 Mark Shannon, Jul 1, 2016
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  15. Mark Shannon

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    #15 Mark Shannon, Jul 1, 2016
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    And this is at the FOC Autumn Concours, Avisford Park, 1981.

    I always thought this was the original, special order blue.

    Mark Shannon
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  16. El Wayne

    El Wayne F1 World Champ
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    #16 El Wayne, Jul 1, 2016
    Now this is an excellent photo that appears to capture the color very well! The only question now is whether the car was completely repainted in an unoriginal shade prior to 1980-81.
     
  17. simonc

    simonc Formula Junior

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    #17 simonc, Jul 2, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2016
    Maybe the car was a special order blue specified by Patsy. Apparently when we bought the car (before I worked for Bell Classics) we were told it was originally a special colour when new but have no proof, then I found the eBay docs and those seemed to have answered the question but Marcel's input seems to indicate a sample may have been sent to Pininfarina to match. For the record the car was a metallic blue when we bought it and it had definitely been repainted during its life. We think it was a shade of a Mercedes blue at that time.

    Mark - in your photos do you think the paint was a flat paint or a metallic. It looks flat to me but the originals may be clearer.

    Any suggestions as to how to find the original shade are welcome.
     
  18. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #18 Marcel Massini, Jul 2, 2016
    If somewhere on the car you find traces of the old original color, even a piece smaller than a fingernail, a good paintshop should be able to analyze and determine the exact color and with their computer can prepare the correct formula.

    Marcel Massini
     
  19. simonc

    simonc Formula Junior

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    #19 simonc, Jul 2, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Unfortunately teh shell has been into our body shop, stripped back to a completely shell and repaired as necessary meaning that there is no paint left on the shell anywhere.

    Here is a photo of the car earlier this week. It is just coming to the end of the dry fit prior to going to the paint shop. The red on the shell is red lead primer to protect the bare metal whilst we work on it.
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  20. simsko

    simsko F1 Rookie

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    #20 simsko, Jul 3, 2016
  21. ted walker

    ted walker Karting

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    #21 ted walker, Jul 4, 2016
    Just spoke with a friend of mine who competed against Patsy "in period" who remembers the car in her light "patsy blue", No luck with photo but I do have a colour shot of her M3 McLaren.
     
  22. Mark Shannon

    Mark Shannon Formula 3
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    #22 Mark Shannon, Jul 4, 2016
    Dear Simon

    I remember it being a quite fine metallic. I got your PM and will look for the actual photos, but some of this stuff is in storage. Those scans I posted here are off the original negatives actually.

    It looks to me as if Patsy Burt has intended to paint the car her normal 'Burt Blue' but I think that was not metallic. She certainly did have it metallic, as metallic is stated on the PF letter. So maybe it was different to the traditional 'Burt Blue.'

    Sadly Patsy Burt's husband died only two years ago. We could do with finding someone who knew them back when they had the car.

    Is Bill Branton still around ? I have a picture of him sitting next to the car at Goodwood. He probably repainted it. Back then it was far too nice to have been original.

    More research is required as it would be lovely to get this car correct.

    Mark

     
  23. 635CSI

    635CSI F1 Rookie
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    #23 635CSI, Jul 4, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    There was a very nice Celeste GTE at the Het Loo Concours two years ago.
    3961 GT I believe ?
    There is a gathering of GTE's at Classic Le Mans this weekend to celebrate the model launch at Le mans in 1961, I am told it will be there.


    Another Celeste GT was owned by french pop singer Richard Anthony in the 1960s, he is pictured here either posing for a publicity photo or attending to a wiring issue on the front fog light.

    It is said he used his royalties exclusively to buy Ferraris and was hence forced live in a lean-too shack in a Cote D'azure quarry.
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  24. 635CSI

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    #24 635CSI, Jul 4, 2016
    As can be seen , very different from the color of that 330
     
  25. ted walker

    ted walker Karting

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    #25 ted walker, Jul 4, 2016
    If that was a non metallic blue then that's not far off
     
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