What are best turbo upgrade for F40 ?

I had a turbo go out and the official Ferrari OEM replacement part is called the LM turbo, but they are not the same turbo that was run on the official LM car, iirc. The originial IHI's uses bushings, and the new ones use bearings as well as a small lip on the impellar (?) blades to spin up a earlier. Unfortunately that means if one of the old ones goes out, you will have to replace both. They are of course rediculously overpriced, in the typical F40 fashion. I haven't driven my car yet with the new turbos, but the mechanic said he was skeptical at first (because they are physically larger), he was expecting more lag but was very impressed with how early and smoothly they spooled up.

 

Just out of curiosity. Are there many F40 owners on here who feel the F40 is slow? Having driven many cars in my time, I would not say the F40 is a slow car. In fact if the car is in fine health, the car is a freak, and is very fast with good uptake of the turbos and delivery(mine at least is very good). So why would you want to fettle with greatness? The f40 was engineered the way it was engineered. It is coming up to classic status soon. Ok it's not perfect(mainly directed at the brakes). But the car is over 20 years in design and concept. The car is what it is. Why meddle with history? Buy a modern car if you want to handle better, brake later, and go faster. I can't understand this obsession with people feeling they can make things more modern and faster.

 

Nobody could ever say a F40 is "slow" unless they own a jet LOL.

The OP tracks his car alot, unlike most. So what is the matter with some upgrades to make it more "LM" like?

 

Ryan:

I think you are missing stradman's point completely. Re-read his last post, then think about it a bit. He makes a good point. Actually, an excellent one.

Of course, especially in America, people will modify and hot-rod till kingdom come, and why not if they wish to? But it doesn't lessen the point that perhaps a less special/more modern car could or should be dedicated for the track so that the F40 can be enjoyed just as Enzo intended.

Or, if one is really serious about racing a Ferrari Supercar, there are GTO Evoluziones, F40 LMs, F50GTs and FXXs designed exactly for such a pursuit. No mods or messing around needed. Pay cash, press button & go.

Consider too - a modified F40 will be both less reliable, and less valuable.

On the reliability front my experience with F40s tells me that the optimum setup is a very delicate balance. Mess with said balance with the introduction of aftermarket components such as turbos and I can virtually guarantee the car will have more issues and be less reliable down the road. I mean, the engineers at Maranello came up with something pretty good and there is a lot to be said for "leave well enough alone".

On the value front, we can argue about this till the cows come home, but the bottom line is, modify it and it is worth less in the marketplace, end of story. I do this for a living full time and Ive learned the hard way, there are really no exceptions.

Now, I'm not suggesting Bill gives a hoot about any of this. But I am suggesting that stradman has a good point. That's all.

 

The majority of the cars are owned by guys that cant even change the plugs. They drive very few miles in order to preserve the value of their cars. I doubt that in the last 5 years more than 1% of all Ferraris sold new went out of warranty due to excess mileage. People buy them as a fashion statement and few are capable of driving the car to the limit. Ferrari has become a car for the posers at the valet. All of the factory cars raced in period were modified by their owners. None was in the factory configuration unless you wanted to run at the back of the pack. Nothing is more boring than to see a car in mint condition with few miles on the clock. Guys that want low mileage 20 year old cars are still searching for virgins to marry. If it were not for these guys, prices would be much lower and the cars would be in the hands of real car guys. Its great the prices are high if you want to sell. If you are keeping and enjoying the car then who cares. I will never regret any modification as long as I enjoy it. Who really wants to see 30 cars lined up that are all the same? Nobody sells you these cars, people buy them. What you have is a bunch of 20 year old cars that have a lot of maintenance issues if used regularly. I bet we see a lot of broken cars after those parade laps. On another note, who crashed their F40 and had their rear clip replaced in SoCal. The part was on Ebay? I am sure the car was fixed and passed on as a no issues vehicle. Surely Joe knows of this car. I cant believe that Ferrari offers painted brake calipers. Give me the anodized forged monoblocks and not those cheap cast calipers on the Enzo.

 

I disagree. In fact the more you use the cars the less problems you have. It is absolutely not the case that it is a question of needing to "modernise" an F40 in order to get it reliable. Yes if the car sits around and doesn't do mileage it will manifest all sorts of problems. Regardless if it has had "upgrades" to it. Sure you will have broken cars after parade laps but only if that is the only time the car was taken out in the year.

 

If you're gonna bolt aftermarket turbos onto a Ferrari, what better car to do it on than an F40?

Factory forced induction cars are meant to have the boost turned up

 

I didn't miss his point, you just have to much "sales" on your mind sometimes Joe.

If someone wants to mod their car to make it how THEY like it, go ahead, it's not all about resale....

Also a properly modded car can be just as, if not more reliable as a stock one.

 

Ryan:

Sales was not the motivating factor for my post. Logic in the real world was. There is nothing wrong with modifying and I have said so. But stradman was making a good point which going by the content your response, you apparently failed to grasp. His point didn't require rebuttal, it was a good solid point, that's all.

As to reliability, we are not speaking of "a properly modded car" as it relates to any car in the automobile universe. We are speaking specifically of 'a modded USA-spec F40'. I know a fair number of unmodified ones, and I know a fair number of modified ones. By-and-large, the unmodified ones that I am aware of have less issues, and that was my point.

 

I agree and BTW Bill does too and that's why he started this thread. Bill didn't ask if he should modify his F40. He asked how best to. Bill's a track Rat and if he felt his F 40 was fast enough or he cared about Bone Stock, he wouldn't have started this thread or have made the many modifications he already has to virtually all of his cars. He's a bit like another great Ferrari Modifier Mark who wasn't happy until he could spin the wheels from 0-200. Even Mauro Forgheri said Mark's Ferrari was pretty cool.

Keep in mind that the last Ferrari to finish first at Le Mans was modified, and not by the factory.

 

Let's put it this way. Sure there it is absolutely not against the law for anyone to modify their car as they see fit. And of course if someone buys an F40 to use the majority of the time on a track then I suppose that's fine too. However I do see people modding their cars despite the fact that they rarely track them, which I presume they do for some supposed kudos to feel they have a faster, better, or different f40 than the other guy. Again that's not against the law either. It's just that I question the sense of that.
My feeling is that in about 25 years from now, it is likely most people will not modify their F40's anymore. It will be more a question of restoring and maintaining originality. Just like 275 or 250 owners do now. I may be wrong, but I can't imagine there are large numbers of owners of these cars modifying the guts out of them. The only mods that may take place are mainly for reliability. And why don't they? Because whatever they do to them, they will never be "modern" in the sense of handling, speed, braking etc and so most owners accept the cars as they are, which are classics.
I can't see why you can't start applying this logic to the F40, that's all.

 

Enzo modified his cars. He ripped seris I 250 GTO's apart and rebodied them with more aerodynamic bodies. The took the P3's and converted two of them into slower 412P's for customers and one into a faster P 3/4 for his team.

I've been driving and modifying Ferrari's for 39 years. I've fixed overheating, hub design that caused wheels to come off, electric windows that were too slow, fuel systems that IMO were dangerous and contributed to the Death of a FCHATTER, cars that needed much more tire to put down the hp they produced, increased down force, balanced down force, removed 500 lbs from one of them, etc., etc., etc. In some cases Ferrari has adopted my modifications. In the case of F 40's I have advised owners on ways to have better head gaskets manufactured for example.

The bottom line for this thread remains Bill wants to modify his car and he simply asked how to do it.

 

Yes Jim,but he was the manufacturer! He had factory back up for doing this!

[/QUOTE]I have been driving and modifying Ferrari's for 39 years. I've fixed overheating, hub design that caused wheels to come off, electric windows that were too slow, fuel systems that IMO were dangerous and contributed to the Death of a FCHATTER, cars that needed much more tire to put down the hp they produced, increased down force, balanced down force, removed 500 lbs from one of them, etc., etc., etc. In some cases Ferrari has adopted my modifications. In the case of F 40's I have advised owners on ways to have better head gaskets manufactured for example.
[/QUOTE]


Yes, but as I said "sympathetic" modifications to improve reliability make sense to me. As I said, Bill, or anyone for that matter, can do what they like to their car(s)

 

I wish Ferrari would finally improve their welding. They seem to be proud of how bad it is. Even the new cars look terrible.

 

Logic is the real world as you call it means nothing if the owner wants to do something to HIS car....

Furthermore, if you know some USA spec F40's that have been modded and might not run as they should, that is the owner/installers fault. You can't add a free flowing exhaust to a car with boost and not tune for it....

 

Exactly....

 

That's for sure.

 

Well, although it is a good car today, its past life is hardly a secret and anyone passing it off as a "no issues vehicle" would be playing with fire. However I doubt if its connections would be running to post its provenance on a public forum.

 

Since the part was recently offered for sale I assumed it was a recent repair. Better to have the stories told now before it was passed to the next owner.

 

You can have a local alternator rebuilder do it, but make sure he gets exact replacement parts and not a generic kit. Save all the old parts. Take him the electrical schematic to show him that it is different than the usual Camaro part. I learned the hard way. The ND (Nippo Denso) is a better design if you can find a kit. You will never get more than a few thousand miles out of that the delco since the heat kills it. If you cant find someone send it to me and I'll have the local guy do it. A new one is about $2500

 

jim, it makes me smile when you speak of mark...those were the days!!!

 

Correct me if I am wrong but didn't John Carmack own a Norwood modified F40? Might contact them and see what they say. Although if that is in fact the case I'm sure the turbos on the Carmack car are archaic compared to what's out now.

 

T. Rutlands has a set of the "LM" turbos on the shelf. They have less lag and smoth out the power band. They install with a minimun of modification and they won't hurt your resale the way hot-rod turbos will. 770 493-8852

Steve