Wayne Carini's 250 GTE

Euro 308 K Plus buyers. Sold on the 10th may

 

sold in Monaco - this was the comment on Classic Car Finance website

"1962 Ferrari 250 GTE 2+2 Series II – £251,500

Not even ten years ago it was possible to buy a 250 GTE for less than £75,000 – so why did this car do so well in Monaco? We asked Ferrari expert James Cottingham of DK Engineering.

This was a good result for this car – just three years ago its value would have been somewhere around £100-130,000. That said, this is a front-engined V12 Ferrari and the fierce demand for these cars means that many potential buyers need to think a little more laterally if they want to find a V12 that fits their budget. Compared to it’s better known siblings you could argue that it offers good value for money"

 

Well looks like your long them. I think the world is in love with old V12s.

 

shouldn't this be on the market sub forum?
I'm quite happy to extol the virtues of the GTE but not the price

 

Was this the one he bought from the gentleman in Queens, N.Y. in one of the episodes?

 

AFAIK, we are talking about 2 different cars.

Wayne Carini's car was 4355GT:

1963 Ferrari 250GTE at F40 Motorsports in Portland, CT

The car discussed above selling in Monaco is 377GT.

https://www.rmauctions.com/lots/lot.cfm?lot_id=1065752

 

Lusso was the Queens car, silver/black.


Jack

 

Right. I wonder what happened to that one?

 

When you think about it then its a no brainer, they have virtually the same engine as a $52 million dollar car, in that respect they are complete bargains even now at that price.

How much does it cost to convert a GTE engine to GTO spec?

 

Probably sold on the truck before he crossed the Whitestone Bridge.

 

I heard Wayne got over $400,000 US for 4355 GT, but that is all I know. 3777 GT, when you add in a buyers commission of 10%, comes to about $465,000.

By the way, there will be a GTE on "What's My Car Worth" on the last show of this season, so maybe Keith Martin will finally settle the value issue...

 

Funny, as there are many said that day would never come.

Hope it leads to what others said will never happen, the abandoned cars becoming worth more then the replica's and thus worthwhile to rebuild.

Even if re-built with repro engines it would be nice to see them live again.

Love the colors on this one.

 

They are clearly being pulled up by the stratospheric prices of the more popular V12 cars, as will the replica's of such cars so the disparity will continue, I still dont see a day when a GTO rep goes back to GTE spec

 

Possibly true and possibly not. If it is primarily investors that are driving the market, then it may not be true because originality in collectibles tends to be much more bankable. I can't think of a single collectibles market where there is any meaningful investment value in fakes. Possibly it is different for Ferraris and possibly not, only time will tell I guess.

If the above is true, I'm hopeful that GTE's and other 2+2's are no longer hacked up. I think we are already seeing nice GTE's valued higher than at least some GTO conversions, so in theory it could make sense to revert them to original form, but the cost to revert them to GTE form may prevent that from actually happening.

 

A replica based on an original is very different to a knock off looking a bit like an original, whatever the market may be. We are not talking Pontiac Fiero F40s here being pulled up in price as a result of the real deal doubling in value.

 

The vast majority of the GTO fakes based upon GTE and 330 GT mechanicals are very, very inaccurate. They could be fun to own, and I can easily see a non-puritan enthusiast buying one to drive, but I can't see any way for inaccurate fabrications to be bankable to an investor.

I can't find it at the moment, but I think there was a thread here a few months ago about a GTE conversion that was supposed to be dead accurate (maybe even done in period). A perfect recreation might actually be a great investment long-term, but I suspect the vast majority of inaccurate GTO conversions will be viewed as damaged goods by investors in this market. I might be wrong, but I can't think of another collectors' market parallel where value is added by destroying an original to create a poor facsimile of something else.

 

Thomas. Did you get my pm ?

 

I would bet the house all day long that you are wrong.

Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but my feeling is people are beginning to value GTE's for what they truly are, classic Ferrari's versus donor cars.

At one point they were just GTE's. But I think that mindset has changed. They are becoming more and more appreciated as the beautiful classics that they are and people are realizing they're not donor cars, and that recreations will never be true classics.

You have to realize that the whole Recreation thing was started in the 80's when these cars were looked at as junk. They are no longer looked at that way by a long-shot and the veil of recreations is being lifted by the people that collect big dollar cars as being not as great as the real thing, even if that thing is a 2+2. Mindsets change as genuine articles age.

I believe what Peterp said is pretty spot on.

Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but my guess is that pretty soon these cars will be getting ther engines back and the recreated hulks will be getting recreated engines in their place.

There is only so much shine you can put on a recreation to fool not only the world but also yourself. Sooner or later an original classic Ferrari is an original classic Ferrari and a recreation is not.

Don't get me wrong, I am not a hater of recreations, I actually like them and see their place. I just don't feel an original car needs to be sacrificed to make them with what is now available today in terms of recreated parts. I feel at one time due to the low value of GTE's it was the way to go but I feel like GTE's are now finding there way into the spotlight. I like recreations, but they should be just that, pure recreations that don't sacrifice an original car.

 

Terry Hoyle told me that (perhaps in self justification) most of the GTE's he cut up to build replica's were on thier last legs, rusting through, basically scrap.

How many of those can be left ? The remaining cars are probably runners, somebody's and now justify high prices and expensive restorations ( see page 20 on the main GTE thread).

GTEs (and for that matter 330' GTs) are great original things and the additional seats and luggage space as useful now as they were in the 60's. Last time I looked people still have kids , dogs and luggage. Women in particular have luggage.
"Hey Honey, fancy a romantic driving holiday through the wine country?"
"Excellent, what can I pack ?"
"Err, a tooth brush ?"

So the number of doner cars is down and thier prices up.

This may not matter if the prices of replicas were to march up with the price of SWBs and GTO's, but will it ?
Whilst i can understand paying 10's of millions for a real car with real history can I understand paying say 1-2 Million for a pretend car with no history?

I hear rumours that GTO Engineering have a batch on the way (numbers vary between 7 and 13) I wonder how much people will pay ? Ask yourself how much you would pay ?
You just know you are going to end up in a car park at an event being told this isn't right or that isn't right. Driving may well be fun, but multimillion dollar fun ?

As to whether re-bodied cars will ever be returned to GTE/330 ) spec I dont know. How much are the costs of reproducing a 2+2 body and interior..and even if you did do you then still have something un original ?

 

I am speaking of the cars that still exist versus building bodies from scratch.

From what I can tell there seems to be carcasses left from cars that were not scrap when they were gutted.

Any info on the GTO engineering cars would be appreciated.