Geoff, yes. I see John regularly. Why don't you come to our next lunch in a few weeks? You can contact me on 0434 768 308
Geoff, if it was brown, do you recall whether it was a brown/gold metallic (eg; oro chiaro, nocciola) or a darker brown (marrone). If it was one of the first two, it could be #13399. I have a pic of it somewhere. If darker it could be #12207 or #13329.
There's a funny story behind #13399 above. I took that photograph in 1983. It is oro chiaro, a light metallic gold/brown. I wonder if this is the car? The car was recently purchased by a family friend who went on to own it for over 35 years. He had just taken my Dad and me for a drive and this was my first ride in a Ferrari. I recall the torque of the engine and the mellifluous symphony from the engine, it was incredible. PT paid $16,000 for the car then, sharp contrast to the 380 SEL behind it purchased at the same time for $72,000.
Greg on this thread we're talking about mostly...proper Ferrari's........you know the ones without the now mandatory shields and postbox shirtwearing type of owner.......
Looks better in this, just saying Anyway, I’m more interested in Zagames sold Ferraris Image Unavailable, Please Login
Here's a great lineup from the late 80's, taken at Warwick Farm. 12623, my 365GT when it was red (originally Old English White), 8685 when Walter A owned it, and a real Chairs & Flairs 246GT (note the MGB door mirror - a UK car) Image Unavailable, Please Login
I had a red C&F 246 in my sights in 1987 - a South African car, as I recall. $38K. The dealer farted around and basically killed the deal. I ended up paying $48K for a GT4 that he had - arsehole.
Hi Carl, Geoff, Alex and others, I’ve owned this car for a bit over 10 years (or at least I’m 99% certain it’s the same car) – chassis #00748. Bought at a Shannons auction in Sydney in 2011 - https://www.shannons.com.au/club/news/auctions/rally-prepared-ferrari-at-shannons-may-2-sydney-auction/. I’ve been aware of its early history, e.g. that it was converted to RHD to a design by Ralph Lowe, before an official RHD version was available. I’ve also spoken to a fellow called John Rosa who worked on the conversion at the W.H. Lowe dealership. However I’m missing any hard evidence of the conversion actually having influenced the design of Ferrari’s own production model, e.g. any correspondence between W.H. Lowe and the factory. Elsewhere I’ve seen it mentioned that the conversion may have simply helped to demonstrate that there was a market for RHD cars, and that Ferrari had a design ready to go but the positive response to this one was at least instrumental in convincing them to put it into production. It’s been suggested the Ferrari factory probably has records of any correspondence from back in the day – but that they would be extremely unlikely to release them. Some of the story is covered in magazines from the time, e.g. Mel Nichols' review of the car in Sports Car World July ’72 talks about how Ralph Lowe’s design for the conversion was used as the basis for Ferrari’s own production version. Motor Manual September 1970 has a review and photos of the car while still in LHD, saying that Ferrari “won’t build all models” in RHD since “more and more countries are switching to driving on the right” and that Lowe’s planned to do a conversion. This magazine also contains an ad from H.M. Lowe’s saying the Dino will “soon be available in Australia”. I understand also (and it’s listed in the second edition of the Dino Compendium) that the car was featured on the W.H. Lowe stand at the Melbourne motor show in 1971 in converted form – but I’ve never been able to find any photos of it there so I’d be really interested to know if any exist. It seems like an interesting story that’s probably been a bit lost to history, so Geoff or others if you have any memories, leads, photos or other information you could share then I for one would be very grateful – and I agree a book on the history of W.H. Lowe sounds like an excellent idea! On the car’s current status… well since its early days it’s evidently led a bit of a chequered life, and unfortunately by the time it reached me all the papers and service records etc had been lost (must be out there somewhere??). When I bought it it had been converted for use in road rallies, and had been somewhat modified. It has also lost its original engine and gearbox, which (as is covered in UK Motor magazine August 1987) were removed in the 1980s by then-owner Sam Johnson (of JWF fame, sadly no longer with us) and installed in a replica 1960 Dino F1 car that he built himself – which I understand still exists and the engine and gearbox are still with it. Sam Johnson also restored #00748 at the time, and fitted a NOS engine and gearbox bought from Maranello Concessionaires in the UK, and painted it red – and I think it’s still wearing this paint job though there is also some yellow (and bog…) peeking through. I’ve never tried delving deeper to look for traces of blue. I’ve done some work over the years to at least take it back to mostly original spec, and have put almost 10,000 kms on it (now at 91,000-ish kms). It’s perfectly functional, though a bit tired-looking, and most people would probably say it should be restored. I keep trying to talk myself into it… I’m not really interested in having a restored car, though admittedly it would look much better in its original colours! Oh well hope this helps and would be interested if anyone has any further scraps of information that might help fill out the details. Cheers, Stephen F.
Thanks for the information Stephen. Have you spoken with J.A . about your car? He spoke with me at length about it when it came up for auction. I love the 206 style hubs! Someone will have images of the 1971 Motor Show, anyone? I am glad it is in good hands and still around. I think the first owner of your car was Tom Luxton. (Of McEwans hardware stores). That family had a pile of Ferraris in the 1960s and 1970s.
I've been contacted by the Son of the previous owner of 365 GT 2+2 #12397, Doug, who kindly provided these images from the 1970s when his father owned it from 1974 to 1978. Here is Doug's story and images: Carl, please find photos attached of the Ferrari my father owned from 1974–78, now confirmed to be chassis #12397, a 1969 car delivered new by WH Lowe. The photos of the Ferrari in white would date from 1974 and the photos in red would be 1978, shortly before he sold it. He had it resprayed at a panel shop in Glenhuntly Rd Elsternwick, at a time when everyone thought a Ferrari should be red! The rego was GJ 365 (there are photos with this rego which I cannot find) when he purchased the car privately from a “Geoff” who I believe owned a hotel around Carlton or Brunswick and who reputedly used the Ferrari to impress the female staff and clientele! Incredibly, just a few years ago, my father met Bill Lowe’s son in Europe, somehow got talking and Bills son said he remembered the white 365GT they had sold. A small world indeed! The owner after my father I am sure was a Mr. Ross who lived in Normanby St, Brighton. As a surprise birthday present, my mother ordered the FE 365 plates seen in these photos, and I recall as probably an 8 year old going with her to Vicroads in Oakleigh South to fit the new plates to the car. Tinkering with motor cars was not her forte in any sense! It’s amazing what sticks with you - I remember the rather exotic routine of flicking switches on the dash to run the fuel pumps before starting the car and the accompanying sounds. Likewise, the many excellent clips of these cars on Youtube are an exact and uncanny reminder of that unmistakeable V12 sound. In my father’s ownership, the car was used simply as his everyday car, and was driven 4-500kms almost every week to Shepparton and Bendigo and back to Melbourne. I should also mention that at this time, our very next door neighbour owned a white 246GT which also was used as his daily transport. In the mid 80’s, when I think the rust became impossible to ignore, he swapped the Dino for a near new black Mercedes 560SEC. My father had the Ferrari serviced (often!) at Pur Sang Automobiles in South Melbourne, a name from the past no doubt familiar to many old Ferrari enthusiasts in Melbourne. My father joined what was then known as the AFR, and already knew well Peter Menere, George Luk and others in the Club. Peter Meneres garage at the time was in fact almost around the corner from where we lived. I remember a Club meet at Winton, being in the car for a few laps and the unfortunate Daytona driver who lost a wheel on the track which thankfully flew off into the bushes without hitting anything. As a side note, my father was also very close to the Bryson family, the first Australian Jaguar agents. Hugh Bryson (Jack’s son) was in fact one of his school friends, sadly killed when he crashed an E Type en-route to a race meet in Queensland. I was reminded of this recently when Shannons had on display the very first E Type sold in Australia. My father remembers being given a ride in the second E Type to land here, a FHC version (the first was a roadster). Another anecdote just recently remembered was a time around 1988 (I was 20 then) and though I don’t recall how this came about – I heard the car was possibly in a workshop in the Box Hill vicinity which specialised in classic car repairs and restorations, particularly vintage Ferraris. With the help of the Yellow Pages (!) I was confident I had tracked down the likely workshop and when in the area not long after, decided to take a look. I went to the entrance and sure enough, there sat a red 365GT 2+2 up on a hoist. Not exactly being a car seen on a regular basis, I concluded it must be the “one”. Hoping for a closer look I spoke to someone who looked like he might be in charge. Unfortunately , yet in hindsight entirely understandably, he clearly did not believe a word of this kid at his doorway with the story of his father’s old Ferrari being the car perched on the hoist just a few metres away! I guess inevitably, I was politely told to piss off… (I know who would have said this! The business was located at 10 Nelson Road, Box Hill, it was run by two ex W.H. Lowe mechanics) I hope the photos and this snippet of the history of #12397 are of interest and enjoyed by all. I am delighted to hear the car is alive and well and indeed still in Victoria. Kind regards, Doug Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Greville Edgerton is no longer with us, but was also well known and very successful as an ocean racing yachtsman in the 1970's and 80's, sailing out of Royal Brighton YC.
Greville is still very much alive, I've helped him out in recent times regarding the Club reg on one of his pre-war Bentley cars. In fact, he has Sirocco for sale a 44-foot pre-war Sparkman & Stephens yacht for sale.
Please tell ol Grev I'm a cash buyer of that Sparkman and Stephens yacht he has for sale for $50K. Cheers Pap
