Vintage section Fake/Replica/Recreation/Rebody discussion

Again, what if we advertised the a Dino which we have, that would not produce any useful discussion.

 

Very well put. Many of these "replicas" ,if you will,gave life to a chassis which might otherwise have ended up in the scrap heap considering the economics as you have described. The foundation of a "replica club" would do much to legitimitize their existance. just one man's opinion tongascrew

 

Phew,

Is it safe to walk back to the fireworks?

To avoid confusion and misinterpretation of what I’m about to suggest, please let me clarify my understanding of the following definitions:

Fake….a counterfeit with no Ferrari origin.
Replica…a representation or facsimile constructed in the same manner and same materials as the original using the same methods.
Original… genuine 100% Ferrari as built, in as new condition.
Authentic..genuine 100% Ferrari, but not necessarily as new condition.
Rebodied…a genuine 100% Ferrari with either a replica or authentic replacement body.
Special…a rebody or replica.

Ok with me still?

Cars have been modified since the dawn of motoring.

Marcel, whilst I TOTALLY 100% agree with you that Fakes should not appear in the vintage section, I strongly believe that rebodied cars should. (Providing their age is appropriate to the section in which the post is made)
Originality and Authenticity is a completely different subject and can be argued indefinitely, and is not the subject of this thread.

As long as no deception or false claims are made about the cars “status” then rebodied cars should not be excluded.

Before you question my opinions, I’d like you to know that I am a very well respected Concours Judge, committee member and spares and technical officer for the RREC. I have attended many long and protracted meetings on the subject of rebodied cars, “specials” and “replicas” whether to include them or exclude them, whether to set up separate categories, sub clubs and classes and whether they should park separately at meetings or be allowed to be judged etc etc. Frankly it makes my head spin recalling all the midnight hours dealing with members opinions and concerns.
I’ve done that, been there, and have numerous Tee shirts.
Reading this thread is like painfully re-inventing the wheel.

Take it from someone who’s juggled these hot potatoes for far longer than most. It’s about keeping the enthusiasm alive for the car, in all it’s forms. You have to respect everyone’s opinion, not just enforce you own.

The RREC has included these “specials” for several years now, if anything it has raised the respect, desirability and quest to preserve “Original” cars while encourage enthusiasm for the marque by allowing people who wouldn’t normally be able to afford an original to simply live their dream through a rebodied example.

As for the guy’s that rebody cars, they are often the most knowledgeable of all, in an attempt to create the most accurate replica they become experts in the detail and history of the originals.

It would be a great loss to alienate these cars.

 

Just open a "Vintage Replica" section. Then watch it fill up. You might need another server. just one man's opinion tongascrew

 

Phew, I was about to pee my pants, but the pressure fortunately relieved through bursting to laugh out loud.

Cheers, Kare

 

Not as big a laugh as everyone on the world wide web laughing at your ignorance kare.

I see my post was wasted on you.

 

I assume the decision of the court was based on the issue of fraud. The next thing that comes to mind in the unfortunate Swaters situation. Some kind of Vintage Ferrari Replica organization might help to bring some kind discipline to what clearly is needed. Factory sponsership would, in conjuctionship with Classiche and the various Ferrari Clubs, give considerable legitimacy to the effort. just one man's opinion tongascrew

 

Please open a Vintage Reproduction forum so some members can go back to sleep. It is clearly keeping them awake and ruining their lives...

 

I don't have the time or resources to research as much as I'd like. Like another poster mentioned, I consider F-Chat a great tool to learn about the marque. If I was looking at another vintage Ferrari, the FIRST thing I'd do is search F-Chat for its serial number.

If disclosure is the issue, then it seems like it would best serve the community as a whole to ALLOW the discussion of Ferrari-based replicas here, so that information is available, as well as opinions. A separate sub-forum? Sure, whatever. My religion isn't so strong that I wouldn't read both forums.

Who decides what goes where? It sounds like a full time job for someone. While many people here have clearly drawn lines in their own minds about what a "genuine" Ferrari is, I doubt even the purists would unilaterally agree.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it widely known that Ferrari has a replica on display in their museum?

 

And at Ferrari World in Dubai, the black & white film they show of vintage Ferrari racing is of fakes based on British Leyland running gear.

 

Spot on.

Not even Ferrari's own Classiche-department, or the factory itself, for that matter, are consequent in their rulings.

This debate will never rest, not will the debate about what constitutes a fake, a replica, a recreation etc..

That was exactly why I created the 'Official replica thread' some years ago, which was since merged with other, some older, threads. It was an attempt to keep the replica-discussion out of the mainstream-vintage topics, but nevertheless allow a space to discuss, expose and not least register chassis-numbers and particulars of these cars. I thought that, for a while at least, it functioned.

Therefor I propose that the current replica-threads move into the replica- main-thread, and that we all sleep sound again: I think we can all tolerate a single thread on the topic, can't we?

Shiny side up,

Jack.

 

I propose the club meet at Paris (the hotel in Las Vegas -- it's cheaper for most of us to get to, and faithful to some of the details of the city in France).

 

Quality post

 

That much is true.
Not sure they are aware of it being public knowledge.
There is no Factory representation here, at least not posting (some dealers lurk)

They have also supported duplication of VINs that no longer exist....like the shark nose F1 that carried Hill to championship....

Enzo was far less entimental than the current management I suppose.

 

The lines between what is fake or not are very blurred. What about cars such as 0666TR?
It's been 'rebuilt' more times than Jocelyn wildenstein and Steve Austin combined. It's not a Ferrari any more is it?

 

I believe that there should be a separate section for recreations (Ferrari bodied cars that are now something else) and either there be a separate section for replicas (where we can go for a laugh).

They are distinctly different in serial number and (usually) cost. Let Marcel or the OP r a mod for the recreation section so he can send appropriate threads there.

 

Several as Marcel has pointed out.

 

After reading 8 pages, this is what I was thinking. Some people need to relax I think. There is a difference between civil disagreement on philosophy and name calling in an open forum.

 

Very True. The best metal workers in Italy are found in shops that made the originals repair the originals, and have certainly made complete replica bodies. Ferrari used them to make the originals and it uses them to make replica bodies such as the one they had made for their complete 125S replica that's in their Museum.

 

This 275 more then 35 years ago was involved in a bad accident,thus this body was built on it.
Were do you guys put it?
To me its a re-bodied 275,not a fake or a recreation.
like most I have an issue with Ferrari cars being chopped up.
But should we knock cars that have been re-bodied due to the condition of the orginal body.
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Well then by the original poster, does this mean we should all boycott Ferrari? Does it mean Ferrari is any less of a company? I guess we should all start selling our cars then. Really no different if you look at it from the perspective of what the original poster badmouths us for!

 

and a lot of those 'famous' shops make real bad looking bodies or even recreations.
they live on a famous name, but you can be a son of Ale.......or Fantu......many newbies don't have the skills.
Many Classic F owners MUST restore or rebody their cars for Ferrari Classiche in Italy.
Why? €€€€€€ and many owners want the RED BOOK so desperately, WELL THAT SHOULD INCREASE the value and will tell the whole world; my Classic F is REAL (but many aren't 100% and not even 50% even when F makes notes on the certificate)

David (Piper) once said to me: in italy there arent many good ones left (coachworkers)

Why pay F lots of Euros and get a Mario Fantasytuzzi shaped F back.
If ones brings a bag of money they will make whatever you want: Testarossa, P, GTO and so on. That it is a complete incorrect body you will see when you pick up the car (ofcourse after all payments done )

 

I'm very happy with the work Brandoli did for me recently but I take your point.
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