Vintage Car Restoration - Lacquer or Basecoat/Clearcoat

Opinions vary.
Some would repaint with lacquer, and then again some areas have EPA laws against shooting lacquer.
When I repaint a car that was shot originally with lacquer such as an early Ferrari, I use a modern paint system like PPG, but I shoot with a single stage paint, unless the original color was a metallic,
then I'll use a base/clear coat.

 

This is a topic I've spent some time considering, as the Dino has a repaint upcoming this winter.

I looked at a Dino with a base/clear coat paint on it that looked stunning, and could not be told (by my untrained eye) from the paint that was on my car.

The advantage to modern paint is it holds up better, is easier to match should you have a big chip or ding later, and will hold color better. (This all from the guy who's doing the work on my car.)

Modern paint is the way to go.

I do not believe it costs you points at a concours, either, but maybe one of our concours experts (Tom, can you hear me?) could chime in.

DM
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My 365GT 2+2 has numerous stress cracks in the paint on the top just back from the windshield. When I get over the cost of the new engine and get around to painting it I will use modern paints so I'm sure the cracking won't come back. I try to maintain originality but I really hate the cracks.

 

fwiw, many times i have heard ed gilbert say you will not lose points for a repaint with a color other than the original so long as the color you paint it was offered for that car at the time it was built. iow it is a correct color for that model and year. so if there is a color you like better that its original color don't be afraid to do it.

 

This is a good moment for me to chime in! My Dino is a 1974 model (UK) and i am about to give it a colour change, I am in love with dark mettalic grey (charcoal) code 106-E-8 does anyone know if this colour was an option for my year/model?

By the way my painter is going to use a urethane base colour followed by several coats of laquer and he has been in this trade for 36 years!

 

Here's what the Dino Register lists as stock colors.

Code Color Common name

20-Y-56 Avorio Safari ?
20-A-349 Azzurro Dino Bright 'French Racing' blue
20-A-547 Azzurro Cielo ?
20-A-357 Bleu Scuro Dark blue
20-A-548 Blue Montecarlo Dark blue
20-B-50 Nero Black
20-R-190 Rosso Chiaro 'Ferrari' red
20-R-350 Rosso Dino Orange
20-W-152 Bianco Polo Park White
20-Y-490 Nuovo Giallo Fly Bright Fly Yellow
106-A-18 Bleu Sera Metallizzato Dark Blue Metallic
106-A-38 Bleu Chiaro Metallizzato Blue
106-A-32 Azzurro Metallizzato Light Blue Metallic
106-A-72 Bleu Dino Metallizzato Medium Blue Metallic
106-E-1 Argento Auteil Metallizzato Silver Metallic
106-E-8 Grigio Ferro Metallizzato Dark Metallic Grey (Charcoal)
106-G-29 Verde Medio Metallizzato Light Green Metallic
106-G-30 Verde Pino Metallizzato Dark Green Metallic
106-G-355 Verde Scuro Dino Green
106-M-73 Marrone Dino Metallizzato Light Tan Metallic
106-R-83 Rosso Rubino Metallizzato Dark Red Metallic
106-Y-137 Oro Chiaro Metallizzato Light Metallic Gold
133-R-10 Rosso Metallizzato Light Red Metallic
20-R-549 Prugna ?
30-R-351 Rosso Bordeaux Dark "Wine" Red
106-R-136 Rosso Cordoba Deep Burgundy
106-R-71 Viola Metallizzato Purple Metallic
106-M-27 Nocciola Metallizzato Copper-Bronze Metallic
106-A-16 Celeste Metallizzato Blue Metallic
???? Giallo Cream Yellow
20-Y-346 Giallo Yellow
20-Y-464 Giallo Senape Yellow (Mustard?)
???? Giallo Dino Yellow
???? Marrone Colorado Brown
???? Grigio Argento Silver-Grey
???? Verde Germoglio Green
106-A-38 Bleu Chario Metallizzato Blue Metallic

Although, any color could be ordered at the factory.

DM

 

Wayne, when we asked Bob Smith about this while touring his shop a few weeks ago, he does not use laquer. He uses modern base/clear to finish the cars he sends to Pebble Beach, including this one which is scheduled to be there this yr (sorry I didn't get a s/n.)

IIRC, he said that the only place he trusts that legally sells laquer is in California, but the color matching to his original Scaglietti paint chip book would be nearly impossible and would involve a trip out there just to approve the paint color (the colors are much harder to mix correctly), and then he'd have to ship the paint back to his shop via ground transportation due to EPA regs.

What I gathered from all of this is that if Bob thought it was necessary to use Laquer in order to win, he'd be using it. He stressed that the color match is what's paramount.
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One of Bob smiths cars from last year

Red looks pretty good

Saw it down to metal....
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Interesting thread.
Does anyone know what year Ferrari switched from lacquer paints?

 

Early 80's...........correct, EPA would file on ayone in US squirting more than one fender at a time..........nice loophole, eh? It'd only take eight or nine trips thru the booth, to get it all done!

GM switched again to current water based low VOC paint around '94. It won't even stand up to road tar, in the lighter (try white! ) colors......

How's your Spanish?

Mexico is thataway!

\/ \/ \/ \/

Assuming you have the map in proper orientation!

 

I have shot both and lived with the results of both.

I did an E-Type Jag in Ecurie Ecosse Blue once in lacquer that was amazing. With enough coats, wet sanding and buffing it looked like you could reach down into it. But.... BUT... it chips, scratches, fades and dulls VERY easily. It also repairs very easily. With Lacquer you can spot repair it. Get a chip? Sand it out, spot fill it, prep the area and reshoot. Then sand/buff the entire panel back to new.

But all that said, no car I own will ever be shot with that ancient tech crap now. I would no more shoot a car in lacquer than I would run Castrol R vegetable based oil. Technology has moved light years beyond.

Modern 2 part catayst paints are durable, flow out fantastic, resist cracks and bubbling and give you a finish that will last far longer. They also can give you a finish that looks just as rich and deep provided you put in the elbow grease! Perfect prep work + highest quality paints + wet sanding and buffing STILL = a show car finish.

Talking with Bo Pirkle last year on this subject, he still goes to seminars several times a year to keep up on the latest paint tech and he swears by the latest/greatest stuff.



Terry

 

About 18 years ago I did the bare metal/shell rebuild on my Dino. I was advised then to do the base coat/top coat 2 pack paint as distinct to lacquer. With the use of a good polishing system (and a bit of hard work) you can get the paint finish to look as deep and as rich as a lacquer job. My paint still looks as good as the day it was sprayed except for the odd chip and a small bit of corrosion on the alloy bonnet - you could not say the same for a lacquer paint finish of similar age and usage. There is no shrinkage or cracks . This is probably due to good preparation by the paint shop and the usage of 2 pack undercoats/fillers etc.. with their inherent strenght / shrink resistance /chip resistance. This is my personal experience anyway..
cheers.
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/Off topic/

AusDino,

Do you have a picture of the 330 that is at the left edge of the picture above?

Regards,

Art S.

 

Pic as requested and also the other 330 at last years concourse.
cheers
Peter
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I'm sitting in my garage right now looking at a 66 Jag that I had painted with lacquer about 20 years ago. That won't happen again.

 

AusDino,

Thanks!

Regards,

Art S.

 

I have been restoring Ferraris and other Italian cars for Pebble Beach Concours d'Elegance for over 20 years. If you are trying to match one panel to another it will be very difficult to match the paint perfectly, as modern paints have different pigments than the old ones, so for instance it will look good in the sun but if you look at it inside under lights the color will look different from certain angles. Modern paints do have better UV protection. I would also never recommend painting over older layers of paint as the chemicals in the new paint might react with the old and cause all sorts of headaches. Strip down to bare metal, it will look better and last longer. As far as judging goes, the type of paint will not be marked negatively as long as the color is something that is period correct. I hope this helps, and feel free to contact me if you have any questions.