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[video] bad CCR 458 crash Road America

Discussion in 'Challenge Club Racing Championship' started by rob lay, Jun 30, 2015.

  1. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    #1 rob lay, Jun 30, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 27, 2015
    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ft0NF1tBbIM[/ame]
     
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  3. GuyIncognito

    GuyIncognito Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    heard about it Sunday morning but that was the first images/video I've seen. nasty crash. I'm guessing contact setting up for braking led to him getting launched?

    glad everyone is OK....those cars are very well built.
     
  4. gatorgreg

    gatorgreg Formula 3
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    Terrible crash. I hope Jim is ok. Looks like Steven Hill's wing came off in this video. Rough weekend.
     
  5. BartonWorkman

    BartonWorkman F1 Veteran
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    Damn!

    Glad everyone is okay.

    BHW
     
  6. JSinNOLA

    JSinNOLA F1 World Champ
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    Thank goodness the safety fence appeared to have held as designed.
     
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  8. ARTNNYC

    ARTNNYC F1 Rookie
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    The catch fence worked as it should. 458 Challenge cars are just to fast to race without an aero kit as the official Ferrari Challenge series decided earlier
     
  9. Teachdocs

    Teachdocs Formula Junior

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    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
     
  10. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    #8 rob lay, Jul 1, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 1, 2015
    ohh wow, he ran right up the back of Steve! for safetys sake I would like to see incident conclusion whether 458 just ran into the back or if Steve made a last minute defensive move. making a single defensive move is allowed, but when you do it abruptly as faster car coming on you then always rolling the dice.
     
  11. GuyIncognito

    GuyIncognito Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Rob, a bit of a tangent, but how come tapatalk images like this (links, not embedded) are now downloads to my computer instead of opening in a new browser window? Safari on OS X in this case.
     
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  13. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    not sure, they made some update on client side, I will have to update server side to see if it works like before or something else they are doing. who knows, they make changes all the time and I hate it.
     
  14. Chewys5

    Chewys5 Formula 3
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    Glad he is okay!!
     
  15. GuyIncognito

    GuyIncognito Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    ah, OK. that sucks :(
     
  16. gatorgreg

    gatorgreg Formula 3
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    I don't think the 458 Aero kit could prevent this situation. Jim ran into the back of Steven and off he went. The series is transforming from a gentleman's series to a pro style series. When you have pro's racing, you have big crashes.
     
  17. A.McLane

    A.McLane Rookie

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    Still Gator, I still think this should get CCR to start thinking into allowing the Aero kits. I understand some "politics" may be existing with FNA, but with this video should play in CCR's favor. I don't know. Any thought?

    To my humble opinion, I think this would also be good for CCR as some drivers running in "other series" official or not, would or could in turn run in CCR. This would mean more cars instead of 3 or 4 running.
     
  18. johnhoughtaling

    johnhoughtaling Formula 3

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    #15 johnhoughtaling, Jul 1, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2015
    Greg

    Jim did not simply run into the back of Jim. We have about 7 camera angles of the crash, most in high definition. There were cameras on the front and back of Jim's car, high defitition from outside the car and incar footage.

    CCR has hosted nearly 60 challenge races and this was the first weekend we had a red flag for a crash. CCR has an unparalleled record for minimal car to car contact, and we are working every race to keep this up as series progresses. It was an unfortunate weekend and the accidents were freak by drivers that are very experienced and have very good safety records. A lot of unsual things (which we will report on later) conspired at the biggest turn at one of the biggest big boy tracks. Even though the accidents were freak and unusual we are not reading in the "that racing" statement. We want to learn from what happened and try to determine what can be prevented in the future.

    One thing I can assure you is that CCR is NOT moving towards being more of a pro series. As long as I'm in control it will stay a gentlemen series where the primary goals are 1) preservation of the cars, 2) safety, and 3) avoidance of car to car contact, 4) with Exhibition and fun will be always paramount to competition. The Ferrari Factory Challenge is the preferred venue for outright competition in current cars. That's not our mission.

    As awful as the crashes were one thing I am proud of. Ferrari builds incredibly safe cars. This is proven. CCR has mandated the up to date factory safety systems as designed by the factory and this is the reason., they work. This accident of Jims was about as bad as it gets and he walked away. I was also proud that our safety steward in charge of this event of CCR was part of the Road America committee who years ago lobbied for this catch fence. All safety systems of the car and track worked together as designed in the most extreme conditions.

    I'll follow up with more info when we have it. Before you have all the data let's not have speculation on the cause before you see all the different cameras that reveal different things. On cause we will be compiling a panel of pro drivers to study all of the footage and give us their conclusions. We will publish our findings.
     
  19. johnhoughtaling

    johnhoughtaling Formula 3

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    Good questions asked Rob. We will publish a detailed report with video angles and pro analysis. I want to turn this into a significant learning experience not just for CCR but for all. The footage we have is unreal. We have so many angles of this at every moment and it's really a fascinating and serious study.
     
  20. Zack

    Zack Formula 3

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    Would love to see the footage. Will you be posting it?
     
  21. GuyIncognito

    GuyIncognito Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    thanks John for being proactive and using this as an opportunity to learn. thank God nobody was injured.
     
  22. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    whatever the true experts find is what they find. CCR will have the right people looking at this and luckily so many views so as not to be he said - she said.

    I believe the experts will rule this a racing incident and not fault either driver. no contact penalties and really no lessons learned going forward unless a way to keep the 458 from flying (not sure if even possible unless a NASCAR flap).

    I have never driven Road America, but it appears the incident was right before a slight straight away bend full throttle. It appears Steve was driving the racing line coming down to the apex and 458 was in his blind spot and had not established enough position for Steve to require providing racing room.

    The 458 should have come alongside before entry to the bend or held off slightly and come around the outside, it was Steve's right to come down.

    If I was ruling I would vote for slight ding against the 458, nothing against Steve, but in the end a racing incident and not major at faults for anyone.

    After seeing this I would personally never race a 458 without aero AND NASCAR flap. Too much suction downforce = too much flying risk.
     
  23. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    while I'm fired up I will say this was one of my few complaints against CCR, the faster classes racing slower class faster drivers. Interaction on the track between classes is expected, but you never RACE other classes. Only thing that happens is both cars are slowed down. If a faster class is doing slower lap times, then he shouldn't pass on the straights. That will allow the slower classed faster driver to take advantage of his speed in the corners and maximize lap times. Soon there will be enough gap where the faster car doesn't have to back off much and might actually learn something from the faster driver. ****ing bull **** drivers that HP down the straights and then park it in the corners where faster drivers get all their speed. Same stupid **** as 2011.
     
  24. Gatorrari

    Gatorrari F1 World Champ
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    Considering how much of the catch fence was torn down, and how much debris came through it, is it certain that no spectators were injured?
     
  25. RWatters

    RWatters Formula 3

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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ft0NF1tBbIM

    There looks to be a decent gap between where spectators sit and where the wall is.
     
  26. Ney

    Ney F1 Veteran
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    #24 Ney, Jul 2, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I will preface this by saying I know neither driver and have not raced the newer paddle shift Challenge cars. I have run at Road America and know this approach to turn 5 pretty well. The extensive video that is available is a tremendous asset to analyzing what happened. Incredible view from the front camera even after departing the car!!!

    Black #33 had position on track. Red #13 was clearly faster on the straights but slower through the corners. Red #13 chose to make an ill advised pass at a point where he was closing, but there was insufficient and decreasing space. Had he delayed his run slightly, he could have easily out braked the #33 into turn 5. I would find more fault with Red #13 than Mr. Lay, however the #13 has already paid a pretty big penalty with the damage to the car. Part of racing and race craft is knowing where to go fast and where to lay back to get a run and the timing of passes either for position or back markers.

    As far as the car lifting, it seems a result of the right front of #13 riding up the left rear of the #33. Once enough air got under the car it rode that cushion of air (remarkably straight) until contact with the fence. I don't think roof flaps which counteract cars blowing over after turning sideways or backwards would have helped here. Perhaps a lower and stronger front splitter might have kept this from happening, but the result might have been two cars into the wall rather than 1.

    My $.02....look forward to hearing from others...

    Edit:
    There is now....It used to not be that way! I used to be just a fence. Then they put the wall up and had a light wire fence holding spectators back from the wall maybe 15'. In this case, the debris fence did a good job (even though I hate when I am a spectator or trying to take a photo)
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  27. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    well, I was first to speak up and have never driven Road America, so kept comments in check. ;)
     

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