Veyron Supersports top speed: 267 mph - How long will it stay? | Page 2 | FerrariChat

Veyron Supersports top speed: 267 mph - How long will it stay?

Discussion in 'Bugatti' started by DriveAfterDark, Jul 25, 2010.

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  1. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Right. He never built any oddities. Anything overly complex. Anything Quirky. Anything overly expensive. Anything impractical. Anything overly large.
    ;)
     
  2. modena1_2003

    modena1_2003 F1 Rookie

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    I like your thinking.

    Maybe we should have a field trip to Google to look at what used to be the most expensive car of all time...



    _J
     
  3. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
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    You mean the good old days. When 10 mil was considered a lot? :)
     
  4. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Jim Glickenhaus
    The gas tank runs dry in 30 seconds cause that's all the tires can take at that speed.

    The car is way heavy.

    The new SSC is aiming for 275mph.

    I'm going the other way. P 4/5 C will have a lower VMAX than P 4/5. It will have a bit more downforce however...
     
  5. DriveAfterDark

    DriveAfterDark F1 Veteran

    Jan 1, 2007
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    So who's making the SSC's tires? 275 mph... Nuts...
     
  6. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
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    I suspect that there was a point in the design process when starting over would have been the best option except that it would have meant admitting failure and risk having the project axed.
    As it is we have a bit of a camel instead of a horse.
     
  7. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    All of them, including P 4/5 use basically the same tyre but it's the weight. The lower the weight the higher VMAX the same tire can take.

    The Veyron cranks out downforce at VMAX as does P 4/5. Not sure about SSC.
     
  8. DriveAfterDark

    DriveAfterDark F1 Veteran

    Jan 1, 2007
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    Thanks for replying.

    Wonder about the SSC sales figures though, haven't seen much of them on the web or car events... Almost non-existing in Europe...

    Also wonder how the newest Koenigseggs will perform, but I really don't think they are so eager to take back "worlds fastest" title anymore...!
     
  9. technom3

    technom3 F1 World Champ
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    it wont need a ridiculous tire because it doesn't weigh as much as an M1A1
     
  10. technom3

    technom3 F1 World Champ
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    My friend, we are just going to have to agree to disagree. i don't have the time or energy to really get into it as much as Id like. You are from the Bugatti camp... I am clearly not. I can appreciate them, but it is not perfection in anyway shape or form. Perfection would have included a thought of overall weight and weight savings. Take a look at the McClarens exhaust manifolds or the radio... Massive attention to detail was paid to every piece. Now I understand your argument of making it a GT car... however, the same amount of attention could have been paid to many parts of the veyron.
     
  11. modena1_2003

    modena1_2003 F1 Rookie

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    With such a wedged shape I'm sure it did. Castriota has a way with functionality so i have high hopes. :)

    _J
     
  12. lamboman123

    lamboman123 Karting

    Mar 18, 2010
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    Well as i have herd Koenigsegg is targeting it with there next car
     
  13. modena1_2003

    modena1_2003 F1 Rookie

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    The Agera's a bit more slippery than the CCX. I'm sure to speed will be a bit higher, although getting north of the Supersport will be an achievement.

    Its amazing what Koenigsegg did with the CCR but when the Veyron came out all of that got put to the wayside. Beating the Mclaren F1s record was the automotive performance achievement of the past fifteen years. Now its about topping 260. Amazing how things change.

    _J
     
  14. Buggin

    Buggin Karting

    Dec 8, 2006
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    die langsame
    I have a hard time considering the Bugatti to be a F up.

    Considering that the only specifications given to the designers was A: over 1000hp, and B: over 400kph.

    Both of those specs were met.
    Seeing as how at the time, there was not a single car capable of doing the same, and the Bugatti not only does it, but does it well, I would consider that a rousing success.

    Granted, some people may consider it over engineered, but I would rather have the over built car, instead of the car that costs less, and feels less stable.

    SSC may beat the Veyron SS top speed, but it will not feel as controlled, stable, or comfortable as the Bugatti.

    Everyone gets sidetracked on the speed issue, no one has mentioned the fact that the build quality of the Bugatti allows it to achieve the speeds it does in a civilized manner, while other cars rattle, and shimmy when pushed in a similar fashion.


    I may be one of those "VW fanboys" you spoke of, but I am a mechanic, and engineer first.

    As for the amount of radiators, I can imagine that when asked, a Bugatti engineer will state that they would rather have too much cooling then not enough.

    Air pressure is no joke, and the heat built up by the engine when over coming that barrier is immense.
    So is the heat build up of other super car engines when run near their limit.

    What blows me away, is that the SS only makes a reported 1200bhp, which is LESS then several cars that I can name off hand, and in Texas alone.

    Yet it manages to better 265mph.

    Never mind the fact that the Veyron was the first mass produced car with the DSG transmission, never mind the fact that VW has ensured that every lesson learned from the Veyron has made its way into the cars sold to the public.

    SSC can not make such a claim, nor do their numbers reach what I would consider to be "production" levels.


    Regardless of what may come after, the Bugatti is still the ultimate, if only because it reaches its mind warping speed while allowing the driver to stay comfortable, collected, and unworried.

    That is its Concord moment.
     
  15. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
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    The fact that the Veyron is a huge engineering accomplishment is not disputed. However it can not be described as an elegant piece of design.
    It reaches its parameters through extreme complication not sophistication.
    Knowing its gestation I suspect its not the car that VW intended nor is it the car that they'd come up with if they started the process all over.
     
  16. Buggin

    Buggin Karting

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    I feel that the majority of the Bugatti's complexity is due to the fact that the engineers were in totally uncharted territory, and had to figure it out for themselves, while Dr. Peich cracked the whip over them.

    Too much new territory, with not enough time to make the best of it.

    If VW had allowed more time to be spent, and more through testing to be done, I can imagine that the end result would have been quite simpler.

    I do imagine that they are not resting on their laurels, and have instead been designing the car to replace the Veyron. Something lighter, faster, and better built.

    As with everything else, the first generation gets everyones attention, and allows you to work out the issues that will pop up.

    The second generation will correct issues from the first, while using newer advances to overall enhance, and improve it.

    I await the next evolution from Bugatti.
     
  17. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
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    As do we all.
    It will be interesting to see if they can afford a clean sheet design.
     
  18. modena1_2003

    modena1_2003 F1 Rookie

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    I think Bugatti had complexity as job 1. The figures originally presented represented the brands obsession with bigger is better, and the idea of extreme complexity as a backbone for their engineering accentuated that. Having a complex way to engineer what was already considered close to impossible made the Veyron that much more desirable. The gilded lily approach.

    I can't see much to work out in terms of problems either. The spins at the demonstration tests at Mazda raceway were clearly resolved. Anything in terms of evolution I would imagine would be in terms of exterior design and top speed. The engineering aspect will most likely stay very close to the current set up until adapting to the competition become necessary.

    Having a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. :)

    _J
     
  19. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
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    As I remember when they ran into serious cooling issues it was thought that a complete redesign would be best but in that going that route would risk cancelation of the whole project they decided to add the complexity and weight of additional radiators.
     
  20. modena1_2003

    modena1_2003 F1 Rookie

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    Doesn't seem that had any negative effect though.

    The idea of keeping an original design all the way to production is difficult to accomplish in the super car Relm, so doing that in such an extreme case is that much more impressive.


    _J
     
  21. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
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    In terms of top speed most likely not. In terms of weight and cost a new design would have been more efficient.
     
  22. modena1_2003

    modena1_2003 F1 Rookie

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    I'm sure there could have been improvements in development costs, although I am no insider so my thoughts are relative.

    Weight on the other hand is relative to their original engine design.



    _J
     
  23. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
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    While a major contributor the engine is only one component. All those extra radiators, pipes, ducts and supports added quite a bit of weight.
     
  24. modena1_2003

    modena1_2003 F1 Rookie

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    Very true. However supporting an engine of that magnitude requires a huge amount of engineering. Making this car as useable as was originally planned means building each component to withstand every diving condition. Having so many middle buyers shows allot about the cars capability under huge heat.


    _J
     
  25. Buggin

    Buggin Karting

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    die langsame
    I do think that some of the systems will be able to slim down with the advances due to Moores Law. Personally, I would like to see Bugatti do a bit more slimming down, and give us something that can prove itself on a track.

    A return to roots, as it were.

    Does anyone know if Bugatti has bothered to take the SS around the ring?

    There's nothing I can find.
     

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