veyron has been driven by autobild german car magazine / nice pictures | Page 2 | FerrariChat

veyron has been driven by autobild german car magazine / nice pictures

Discussion in 'Bugatti' started by alan, Aug 31, 2005.

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  1. SELLER

    SELLER Karting

    Jul 18, 2005
    151
    Chicago
    Gorder Murry = HATER

    too bad hes a man without a country.. as McLaren recently threw him OUT of future product development at McLaren. He's just bitter that his McLaren F1 is slowly being passed up (time+technology), and he doesnt have any control within McLaren to build a new "F1".

    I still respect the Man. But his thoughts regarding the Veyron are childish.

    He should be flattered that people even CARE enough about his F1 to 'Chase' its Top Speed.


    Gordon Murry doesnt understand, that "light weight technology" doesnt mean... LEAVING THINGS OUT. the F1 didnt have light weight components.. it DIDNT HAVE COMPONENTS.. no power steering, no power brakes, no ABS, that doesnt make a car "advanced", it makes it Crude.

    Gordon, if you want to advance technology, you take Everything we have now, every technology... and figure out a way to make the PARTS LIGHT, not just Throw them out.
     
  2. Ferrari330P4

    Ferrari330P4 Formula Junior

    Aug 4, 2005
    739
    Bay Area
    Full Name:
    Karl
    Am i the only one who thinks that the veyron looks brilliant?
     
  3. alan

    alan Formula 3

    Apr 17, 2004
    1,501
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    Alan
    No i think its gorgeous, very art deco stylish design, what i dont understand is most of the people who criticise it seem to like the design of the enzo, a severe case of the emperors new clothes if you get my meaning.
     
  4. BlueBiturbo

    BlueBiturbo F1 Rookie

    May 19, 2004
    3,967
    Jakarta
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    TS
    I agree it looks briliant, but the engineering package and the goal for most HP and top speed IMHO is ridiculous.
    Its goal is to be the number one in everything which is not needed in the real life.
     
  5. Turb0flat4

    Turb0flat4 Formula 3

    Mar 7, 2004
    1,244
    Singapore
    Full Name:
    RND
    Ooh, I could actually hear the b!tchslap there. LOL
     
  6. teak360

    teak360 F1 World Champ

    Nov 3, 2003
    10,065
    Boulder, CO
    Full Name:
    Scott
    Have you driven a Mclaren F!? The last thing it needs is power steering, power brakes and ABS.
     
  7. teak360

    teak360 F1 World Champ

    Nov 3, 2003
    10,065
    Boulder, CO
    Full Name:
    Scott
    I lifted this out of a post on Automotiveforums.com today.

    Sounds like quite a ride. I admit I would love to drive it, so Judge4re if you ever get one......


    http://img358.imageshack.us/img358/9914/file09400wu.jpg
    http://img358.imageshack.us/img358/3676/file09418ze.jpg
    http://img358.imageshack.us/img358/880/file09420dc.jpg
    http://img358.imageshack.us/img358/9314/file09439es.jpg
    http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/1574/file09445hg.jpg

    AMS chief editor Bernd Ostmann has been the first mag tester that had the pleasure to ride 400+ in the EB 16.4 Bugatti Veyron at VW test course Ehra-Lessien...

    For the metric challenged
    402 kph is 249.9 mph
    100 kph is 62mph
    200 kph is 124mph
    25 meters is 82 feet
    1950 kg is 4299 lbs!
    some impressions what he said about that day...

    the track has been kinda damp in the morning, kinda scary at 400km/h, so 111m/sec without crash barries like in Nardo, well not really, rear wing setup to 2° so 40 to 50kg downforce at rear axle engineers promise that this´ll be enough for a smooth ride even on wet pavement...
    through the first corner with 220 easily - absolute brutal accelerating up to 300 within seconds a light left hand bend with 380 - looking into the rear mirror - just an enormous spray but just like they told the EB16.4 is a very smooth car to ride even at that speeds...
    the sepcial Michelin tires are working just perfect, they were tested up to 500km/h and before a high speed run they require 3bar pressure - this is one of the points the driver has to go through with a check list and a second car key to unlock the high speed mode - here the two front diffusor flaps are closed, the rear wing selects 2° and the body is lowered to 6.5cm front and 7cm rear a sepecial system is monitoring everything and when only one parameter is not ok the car automatically switches to handling-mode...
    the first run ended with "only" 380km/h - the car switched to handling because the exhaust temperatures reached critical 970°C - cooling down the car at 220 or 5000rpm in 4th gear...
    the weather gets better, it´s much warmer now and engineers force the AMS team to "act" - next run 398km/h - this time it´s the driver´s fault as he has enabled the A/C on the previous cooling lap costing some km/h on that fast run - so again a cooling lap and then full concentration on the last run with nearly 400 the rpm showed 5800 in 7th gear, now it shows 6200rpm at a speed of 402km/h ...

    braking is again a new experience 31.4m (!!!) from 100 to 0 with a 1950kg car...

    on the other hand acceleration is also outstanding - measured 25m long black rubber from all four wheels after the standard sprint with launch-control - result: 2.5sec to 100 and 7.3 to 200 :shock:

    on a side note - at 400 km/h the EB16.4 needs ONE liter fuel for ONE kilometer so they calculated every 12min a gas station on autobahn when driving 400


    With that kind of fuel consumption, gas prices really need to go down!
     
  8. JaguarXJ6

    JaguarXJ6 F1 Veteran

    Feb 12, 2003
    5,459
    Black Hawk, CO
    Full Name:
    Sunny
    Ok, so as Gordon Murray's spokesperson, its ok to bash a car going after the remaining 90% of the market that the F1 didn't that requires those things?

    Two design principles, two target markets, one common goal.

    The F1 is going to share the crown with another feat of engineering greater than the Enzo.

    It won't be the last time, either.
     
  9. SELLER

    SELLER Karting

    Jul 18, 2005
    151
    Chicago
  10. Miura Jota

    Miura Jota F1 Rookie

    May 26, 2004
    3,632
    Toluca , Mexico
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    Martin
    ... different peolpe have different needs...
    people who can afford a BUGATTI don't live in what you call real life

    I've a July 1990 MotorTRend magazine where Gordon Murray said: I've driven the world's best cars (F40, Countach, 959 & Esprit) "now I know what makes them the best .
    it's time to try to blend bits of those extemes into one car" (is that car designing?? )
    So why is he complaining now?

    IMHO the only thing which makes a BMW powered McLaren F1 great today is: it's low production numbers otherwise it would be just another 90's supercar

    P.S. Long live to KING VEYRON !
     
  11. F1racer

    F1racer F1 Rookie

    Oct 5, 2003
    4,749
    Laval
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    Jean
    Hope I get to see this car one day in real life. 0-100 kp/h in 2.5 secs and a top speed of over 400 kp/h. Incredible!
    Looks good in my opinion.
     
  12. Miura Jota

    Miura Jota F1 Rookie

    May 26, 2004
    3,632
    Toluca , Mexico
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    Martin
    0-100 kph in 2.5 seconds !?

    finally a 4 wheeler could challenge my bike.
     
  13. CMY

    CMY F1 World Champ

    Oct 15, 2004
    10,142
    Redondo Beach, CA
    Full Name:
    Chris
    Uhmm.. yeah... :rolleyes:

    The problem is that we're comparing apples to oranges. The F1 was designed and built with no compromises made; the Bugatti needs airbags, emissions equipment, traction control, etc.

    Let's be honest here.. the F1 isn't really an automobile that could be built today without some of these concessions (although I'd love to see someone try) and the Bugatti is substituting horsepower for lightweight to achieve the goal. The only problem is that GM never really designed the F1 to be the world's fastest automobile, it just sort of happened by virtue of BMW coming back with 100+ more hp than intended and his design being able to support that.

    I've seen the F1 go around a track and there is absolutely no way that the two cars would be near each other in the corners. Maybe GM is past his prime, maybe he's not.. but don't belittle the F1 based on production numbers.

    C.
     
  14. Miura Jota

    Miura Jota F1 Rookie

    May 26, 2004
    3,632
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    Martin
    back in 1990 no one even knew the name McLaren (road car wise) and Murray was already testing & criticizing F40, 959 and others (for a car magazine) claiming he'll design and build the ultimate supercar , so he had those 80's cars in target attempting to outperform them . it wasn't an accident which just happened

    currently it's good to see VW chasing the dream of creating the WORLD'S # 1 car
     
  15. CMY

    CMY F1 World Champ

    Oct 15, 2004
    10,142
    Redondo Beach, CA
    Full Name:
    Chris
    Murray had the general design for the F1 laid-out for quite some time before the car was actually produced. Testing the current cars of the day (which are still quite a choice lot, except the Countach) was a good way of pin-pointing certain aspects that he'd like to incorporate in his own.

    The Mclaren was built with a totally different set of parameters than the Bugatti, and it's still being chased today. The "Worlds #1 Car" isn't determined just by HP and top speed; the F1 just happened to also have these attributes as well.

    The Bugatti bores me before it's even been registered to a private owner. The design is EB110ish awkward, it's entirely too complex (diluting the DRIVING experience) and it's got enough HP to make the Carrera GT seem like a safe proposition. Show me a video of the Veyron running the 'ring and I might change my mind.

    -Chris
     
  16. Peloton25

    Peloton25 F1 Veteran

    Jan 24, 2004
    7,645
    California, USA
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    Erik
    If you can't get the story straight, please don't bother telling it. You do a disservice to yourself and to the person you are referring to otherwise.

    Gordon severed his relationship with McLaren, not the other way around. He lived through the SLR development process, but was not interested in sticking around in the company that McLaren Cars had become. The company he had created was no longer the same, and he was no longer in charge. Gordon doesn't work well when it comes to 'design-by-committee' and has decided to pursue his remaining design ideas on his own with his own company now.

    Here's a scan of a one-page article on Gordon Murray that will appear in the October issue of Car&Driver. There are some slight inaccuracies, but for the most part it is quite good:

    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v482/Peloton25/McLaren%20F1/CaD-05-10-p50.jpg

    >8^)
    ER
     
  17. BlueBiturbo

    BlueBiturbo F1 Rookie

    May 19, 2004
    3,967
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    TS
    Just what we need, another 1950 kg behemoth that goes 402km/h.
    Perfect car for the Maybach Excelero owners.

    I would love the veyron if they can do all that in a 1,500kg package
     
  18. judge4re

    judge4re F1 World Champ

    Apr 26, 2003
    13,477
    Never home
    Full Name:
    Dr. Dumb Ass
    Make that owner, not owners. There is only one and I'm pretty sure its not a time share...
     
  19. BlueBiturbo

    BlueBiturbo F1 Rookie

    May 19, 2004
    3,967
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    Yes, currently only one.
    If the Excelero is produced, it will have the same target market as the Veyron.
     
  20. BlueBiturbo

    BlueBiturbo F1 Rookie

    May 19, 2004
    3,967
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    Several resons why I don't like the Veyron:

    1. Top speed is the main goal.
    Isn't it obvious? It's been advertised since day one.

    2. It doesn't break any new grounds.

    a. For $1.5 million I expect more. It is an 8 liter turbo car that produces 1000hp, so what? It is a lazy engine anyway. The W-16 is needed to show the world that VW build the best 16-cyl engine. Quad Turbos produce a REALLY HOT engine bay, but they need 'em to feed 4 banks of cylinder. Why not just stick to a nice V-12? Nooo... They need to "break new grounds", the first V-16 of the 21st century. :(

    b. 4wd is not very sport-oriented track driving but for a 1000hp they say it is necessary. Look back to 1989 when Koenig Specials made a KCE-1000 with 2wd and no ABS. Rough and crude car I suppose but it works.

    c. Chassis packaging is the same old 2-seater mid-engine layout. Mclaren F1 was the first 3-seater supercar with LOTS of storage space (for a supercar) here and there.

    3. Veyron is NOT a sportscar.
    1950kg sportscar? Get real.

    4. Nothing special about it. Any DOHC 8-liter engine with Turbos can make 1001hp, hey, even an 8 liter TT Pushrod Chevy can make that same power. Give the underdog Minardi Team couple of hundreds of million $$$ to develop a roadcar with goals of 8 liter, 1000 hp and 1950kg, I bet they can do it too.

    5. It's all about the numbers. 7-speed, 4wd, 1001hp, 400kmh, etc. but missed the most importand thing : weight.

    -------------------------------

    I laughed at the Excelero, at the need for 400hp SUVs to drive to supermarket, etc. Sadly more and more people want power and bling for no real reason.

    IMHO Veyron is the king of supercar bling.
    Like a Vertu to a cellphone
     
  21. alan

    alan Formula 3

    Apr 17, 2004
    1,501
    United Kingdom
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    Alan
    I dont understand your obvious dislike of this car, its boardering on hatred, which makes me think you feel your beloved mclaren is threatened by it. Not unlike a sports fan who criticises the team that knocks his team off the number one spot.
    Afterall who said a sports car has to be light, if its exotic and fast its a sports car, end of argument.If you dont like it dont buy one!
    In the 80s i adored the Countach with a passion and would ridicule those who didnt adore it, but i respect admire and lust after all those exotics which dethroned it, i dont resent despise and hate them, and they have not stoped me still adoring the countach, its achievements can never be nullified by newer better exotics , much like the mclarens can never be.
     
  22. Peloton25

    Peloton25 F1 Veteran

    Jan 24, 2004
    7,645
    California, USA
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    Erik
    The guy has only made one comment on the McLaren F1 in this entire thread (about packaging and luggage space) despite racking up six posts, and you choose to criticize his entire argument as if he's an F1 fan boy? Excuse me? Are we reading the same commentary here? :confused:

    In his first post he suggested buying 3 Carrera GTs for the price of the Bug - why not call him a CGT fan boy instead? :D

    His comments have a lot of merit - the Veyron weighs in at nearly 1000lbs more :eek: than the last Bugatti road car, the EB110 - which also had quad-turbos and AWD. Honestly, why??? Did they decide to build the chassis out of osmium instead of something more appropriate?

    >8^)
    ER
     
  23. alan

    alan Formula 3

    Apr 17, 2004
    1,501
    United Kingdom
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    Alan
    Im not attacking the mclaren its an amazing car, im just incapable of understanding his seeming hatred of the veyron, as i said above ( and often say in different threads) i adore every exotic, i just dont get those who really hate one model over another, hence my sports team analogy.
     
  24. Peloton25

    Peloton25 F1 Veteran

    Jan 24, 2004
    7,645
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    Erik
    I never claimed you were attacking the F1. Read it again please. :)

    You stated that his hatred of the Veyron must stem from his love for the F1, and that he probably feels threatened by the Veyron. Honestly though, in reading all of his posts, I don't see how you can possibly come to that conclusion based on the comments he made in this thread. :confused:

    >8^)
    ER
     
  25. alan

    alan Formula 3

    Apr 17, 2004
    1,501
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    Alan
    Well i admit im guilty of jumping to conlusions there, but you must admit most of us think of the f1 as the ultimate car, and so when one is talking of dethroning and top speeds, its usually the f1 that jumps to mind with most of us isnt it? i know some like to bring in the Koenigsegg ccr or the odd 'special'.Though generally in terms of all round, road legal* homologated performane machines one thinks of the f1.

    (*in europe and most of the world at least)
     

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