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Vettel must NOT start 2020 in Ferrari

Discussion in 'F1' started by 444sp, Nov 17, 2019.

  1. ingegnere

    ingegnere Formula 3
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    The whole world sees Vettel's incompetence and vindictiveness except stupid Ferrari.

    Literally, "benching" Vettel world have resulted in a larger points haul yesterday. They should leave him at home for the last race of the year... and in 2020. They may not win the WCC but they'll have a much better chance at a WDC!
     
  2. ingegnere

    ingegnere Formula 3
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    At least he won't take out the lead driver.
     
  3. ingegnere

    ingegnere Formula 3
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    DR doesn't have to play second fiddle, they can let them race. At least DR is a real racer, can pass and fight it out without spinning and probably smart enough not to run into his teammate on a straight.

    But anyway that's wishful thinking for 2020 I think. Maybe 2021.

    At this point Kimi would be better alternative for next year. He wasn't that much slower than Vettel at the end of last year after all.
     
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  4. william

    william F1 World Champ

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    Carbon fiber suspension parts are fragile, and snap easily to prevent chassis damage.
     
  5. william

    william F1 World Champ

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    No, he will be one lap behind.
     
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  6. CRG125

    CRG125 Formula 3

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    True, but he had new softs to Vettel having used one and so he was faster at that moment.
     
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  7. E60 M5

    E60 M5 Moderator
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    I just don't understand Vettel at all and lets remember this is not the first rodeo for Vettel and team mates.
    Plain and simple his time has passed, I wish him well.
    If he didn't make contact then, he would have done it later in one of the other corners for sure, he's full of rage when losing.
     
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  8. ago car nut

    ago car nut F1 Rookie
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    Ferrari's mistakes this year has cost them big!!
     
  9. DF1

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    https://www.planetf1.com/features/vettel-or-leclerc-who-leads-ferraris-error-chart/

    Sebastian Vettel vs Charles Leclerc: 2019’s errors in numbers


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    2019 has been a strange year for Ferrari. The team that have traditionally had a championship challenger and a rear gunner have had two genuine title contenders (setting aside relative car pace) this year. And of the 20 races so far run, Vettel – a four time champion, with more than a decade of experience under his belt – has beaten Leclerc – a rookie with just one year’s experience, in a Sauber of all things – in just 11 of those 20 races.

    Granted, that is a (slim) majority. But let’s look at this in more detail, focusing not so much on the successes but the major errors made by each driver.

    In Australia, the team did realistically all they could. A 4-5 finish, favouring Seb, made total sense.

    Bahrain rocked the form book. Badly. Leclerc was dominant. If not for his mechanical woes, he would have taken a convincing win in only his second start for Ferrari. That contrasted sharply with Vettel, who couldn’t seem to avoid his tail-happy Ferrari’s desire to take up ballet lessons. Echoes of Massa at Silverstone in 2008, but without the rain. First major point against Vettel.

    China was another quiet affair, a 3-5 result in favour of Vettel. Honestly, all I can really remember of that race now is the fastest lap for Gasly. Azerbaijan was another 3-5 to Vettel, again without much to report, and the same again with Spain’s 4-5. Bahrain was starting to look like a flash in the pan at this point.

    Monaco. This offers Vettel a reprieve, with Leclerc’s impatience ruining his race. So that’s now one point apiece.

    Canada, on paper, goes in Vettel’s favour. But there’s the small matter of nearly putting Hamilton in the wall after cutting the chicane. Despite the double podium, Vettel’s actions there score him a second point. The equality is gone again.

    France. This was the start of a short period of domination by Leclerc over Vettel, but there’s no glaring error here to call out for either driver.

    Austria. Leclerc should have won this one as well, which would bring Ferrari to a theoretical three wins, but in the end Verstappen used his experience and knowledge of just how far he could push the stewards (and the Ferrari) without a penalty to his advantage. And Leclerc chalked it up as a lesson learned. We’ll revisit this point later.

    Silverstone was a terrible day for Vettel. He’d been outqualified already, pretty convincingly, and had to fight his way through. In the end, all he could do was ram Verstappen and basically end both drivers’ chances of a podium. Max was lucky he could limp to 5th. Leclerc ended up on the podium, while Vettel followed the Williams cars home, with only himself to blame. The score stands at 3-1.

    Germany highlighted a major flaw in Leclerc’s skillset, which we saw last year at the same race. Wet driving isn’t his strength. Seb made the podium, and Leclerc ended up in the wall. 3-2.

    Hungary was a bit of a non-event for Ferrari, distantly following home Verstappen and a truly on form Hamilton.

    Belgium was the first time either driver actually managed to put a mark in the win column, rather than just the “should have been” column. Leclerc dominated the weekend, although there’s nothing to mark against Vettel here. Nonetheless, it had to hurt that Leclerc legitimately beat him to the first Ferrari win of the year.

    If Belgium was painful, Italy was just kicking a man while he was down. Leclerc pulled off a Ferrari win on Italian soil, complete with a few moves learned from Max in Austria. The Tifosi were elated. And what of Vettel? An unforced spin. A needless ram of Stroll. And 13th place. 4-2.

    Singapore is a difficult one. Neither driver made a mistake, but most would argue that Leclerc was robbed of a 3rd straight win. But there’s no points to be given here, so let’s move on.

    Russia. Vettel’s petulance, prior to his engine failure, isn’t the worst thing listed here. That said, it added unnecessarily to the discord in the team. 5-2, if only because as team leader (at least, in theory) he should be bringing the team together, a la Schumacher (I know, I know…), rather than causing further tensions.

    Japan was a bit of a non-event for Leclerc but there was nothing obviously wrong with his performance, other than Vettel simply beating him. The same is also true in Mexico.

    America. Some blame Vettel for his suspension failure, some don’t. I’ll be charitable here and say that without complete consensus, no point awarded. The way Leclerc’s suspension obliterated itself after only a light touch in Brazil helps his case too.

    Which of course brings us to today. The Brazilian Grand Prix. Every single person who discussed this incident (save one) agreed that Vettel was either almost wholly, or wholly to blame for the double DNF. And the footage certainly supports that.

    So that’s 6-2 against Vettel. Leclerc, the relative rookie, has only a third of that number. He also has double the number of wins, and also of potential wins, compared to the 4-time WDC.

    What, if any, future does Seb have in the sport? Does anyone expect another Ferrari contract to come his way? And if not, what’s his next move?
     
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  10. Korr

    Korr F1 World Champ
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    Max Verstappen would like to thank Vettel and Scuderia Ferarri for handing him 3rd place in the WDC.

    What a massive pile of screwups this year with 0 outlook for improvement.
     
  11. TexasF355F1

    TexasF355F1 Three Time F1 World Champ
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    As a bipartisan viewer, I'd like to see Riciardo and Vettel swap.

     
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  12. Jack-the-lad

    Jack-the-lad Three Time F1 World Champ
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    I never understood the love for RIC. The guy is basically a journeyman driver with occasional flashes of promise. I don’t see him ever in the Scuderia. Why would he go there as #2, anyway?
     
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  13. I'm 360 Canuck

    I'm 360 Canuck Formula 3

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    Ya, for that reason I can’t crucify vettel. It was a freak accident that such minor, trivial contact resulted in such catastrophic damage to both cars. The Ferrari curse of 2019.
    I’m not sure Binotto could manage a brothel with $50 in his pocket though.
     
  14. DF1

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    The amount of prize money lost to points not gained by Vettel would surpass his salary quite easily. He has a seat.........why?????????
     
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  15. I'm 360 Canuck

    I'm 360 Canuck Formula 3

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    #90 I'm 360 Canuck, Nov 18, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2019
    I’m with you. Nothing but mediocre this year.
    Funny, he went to Renault, and stunk up the joint, picking up their losing ways. Meanwhile, gasly got demoted and began getting more out of that car than anyone has this year. Hmmmm.... not jumping on the gasly bandwagon, but I know what I like to see in how someone deals with adversity.

    DR is an entertaining guy, class clown even, but no one I’d have confidence in anymore.he looks way too happy and content with his current status (due to his big payday), no hunger or emotion. A slacker.
    If I was his dad,I would wipe the grin off his face and remind him that he looks average at best now.
    Great athletes find ways to occasionally “steal a win”...DR never does. Just cruises.

    as for Russell, I’d like to see him get at least A SINGLE POINT before I’m a believer.
     
  16. Korr

    Korr F1 World Champ
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    I expect them to screw up, and I still bemused when it happens. Taking out your own team mate is just

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    It's his 3rd season on the trot throwing things away for no reason.
     
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  17. Robb

    Robb F1 World Champ
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    Post of the day. Well done

    Robb

     
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  18. johnireland

    johnireland F1 Rookie
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    Putting the blame on Vettel is not productive nor accurate. The team management is dysfunctional and that is where the lack of control of strategies and drivers begins. Ferrari doesn't know how to win...except by luck or mistake. Vettel and Leclerc hitting each other is not unique in F1...other teams have also done it. When it happens we all ask how did it happen, but the fact is...that's racing and it does happen and all any team can do is suck it up and move on. The cars weren't fast enough, that is a real problem...because the team didn't go out 100% for the second half of the season. All this said, Vettel is not worth what he is paid, and it is as good a time as any to bring in a new driver.

    I don't care what people in the pits say about Ocon, I think he has a lot of talent and it will be wasted at Renault. I think he would be a good team mate for Leclerc. But no matter what, neither Mercedes nor Ferrari will be the story next year...it will be Red Bull. I sense a down year for Mercedes in 2020...and maybe leaving the sport and avoiding the cost of 20201. I think Ferrari is swimming in confusion and only a strong leader at the top can pull it together. But I don't think it would help them beat Red Bull in 2020. Ferrari could be fighting Mercedes for second place...and sometimes lose that to a McLaren. As for us, if you only watch F1 for Ferrari, take a year off. The footage of Brundle driving a Senna car shows how much more exciting and demanding F1 used to be.
     
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  19. william

    william F1 World Champ

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    Wait for next year and a few interviews of Ocon filtering in the media.
    Then you will see that Ocon is not very mature in his head.
    I expect some sparks between him and Ricciardo; Ocon has no respect for other drivers.
    Also, unless he has changed his attitude, it won't be long before the Renault staff starts complaining about him.
     
  20. ingegnere

    ingegnere Formula 3
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    #95 ingegnere, Nov 19, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2019
    Are you suggesting they don't know how to design a suspension? If so that's pretty silly.

    They've been designing carbon suspension components going on 20 years and, like all other teams, design them for specific load cases and durability (the usage of critical components is tracked and these are changed when they reach the end of their calculated life).

    They've obviously, over the years, refined their processes and optimized the design of the components for strength, aero and weight savings while still designing the parts to withstand multiple lateral, vertical and longitudinal g-levels. What they didn't cater for (otherwise the suspension parts would be massive and fit for a truck) is a dumb-a*s teammate sideswiping the front suspension at speed. The front suspension is not designed to take a forward load (i.e., getting hit from behind!) and the upper wishbone is not designed to take buckling-inducing compressive forces not to mention what the rubbing of the tires at that speed works create as additional vertical load.

    So basically, the only fault in that suspension design was that it was not moron (read Vettel) proofed!
     
  21. ingegnere

    ingegnere Formula 3
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    He won't be a lap behind and more importantly he'll let the lead driver finish HIS race and gain valuable points.
     
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  22. I'm 360 Canuck

    I'm 360 Canuck Formula 3

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    Give him a chance to see if last year was an opportunity to learn humility. Being around a winning team may have rubbed off on him. IMO, Perez was an asso teammate, and Ocon fought fire with fire.
    If not for Carlos Slim, but drivers would’ve been out of a job last year.
    but tbh, it’s a balance of attitude and skill. great skill sometimes apologizes for bad attitude.
     
  23. SPEEDCORE

    SPEEDCORE Four Time F1 World Champ

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    Ferrari should just run one car next year.
     
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  24. pilotoCS

    pilotoCS Formula 3
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    Read the rule book, please.
     
  25. I'm 360 Canuck

    I'm 360 Canuck Formula 3

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    Binotto needs to come up with a strategy to get both drivers to work as a team or at least not adversaries, that they both buy into.
     

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