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Very sad sight... 250 GTE 2+2 BODY!!!! must have been chopped for a "recreation"???

Discussion in 'Recreations & Non-Period Rebodies' started by James in Denver, Nov 23, 2007.

  1. kare

    kare F1 Rookie
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    Nov 11, 2003
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    That one is now gone forever and I would really rather see the body crushed than getting a second life as a mongrel. Get over it, there'll be others soon.

    You can get a project car for around 60..100k, turning it into a replica will cost another 100k and it will bring 250..500k in an auction. We are definitely going to see others soon.
     
  2. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    While we agree on the replica debate, I'd rather see the body wrecked (ie. cut up) and the panels used to help restore other REAL GTE's.
    As I have always said, these replicas are ONLY created for profit! No real car enthusiast would do this. (Note there are many replica fans that enjoy their replicas without having to cut up a rare car first, ie. Ford based replicas, etc.).

    Pete
     
  3. Artvonne

    Artvonne F1 Veteran

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    Sorry to disagree, but there will NEVER be any others. Other makes and models of other car certainly, but not this. The number that were originally built are all that will ever exist. Destroying this car is truly the equivelent of destroying a piece of art. And I do appologise, but it seems rather arrogant you would prefer the car be crushed than to even be able to offer body panels to those in need.

    I never had a great opinion one way or the other of rebodies, but if this is what someone sacrificed to build something else, I think we all lost something very grand. No GTO rebody on this chassis is worth this IMHO.
     
  4. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    Artvonne,

    Kare is on "our" side ... I think he is so sick of it that "his get over it" comment meant ... there will always be another car cutup next month so you just have to get over it.

    Basically there are some real wankers in the classic Ferrari or car business who would sell their grandparents to make a buck ... so an old rare car means nothing to them.
    Pete
     
  5. kare

    kare F1 Rookie
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    We already have more than 100 GTE-based replicas around. That means more than 100 surplus bodies hanging around. Nobody needs the body panels; any car in need of a body panel will go down the replica road.
    I'm keeping mine out of the market. That's all I can do at the moment - save one car. I'm also keeping it out of sight: the replica fans have made me understand that I should not be prowd to own one; I should be ashamed. How wrong could I be... Best wishes, Kare
     
  6. M.James

    M.James F1 Rookie

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    Folks, lets not forget that there are HUGE stores of vintage Ferrari parts out there.....what do you think Tom Shaunessy (SIC) has been collecting in his CA warehouses for years and years? A few phone calls to the right people could come up with a period-correct drivetrain, and that's half the battle to putting it back on the road again.
     
  7. donv

    donv F1 World Champ
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    Sure, and possibly a chassis... but all at what price?

     
  8. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    But why then don't the replica wankers buy these components instead??

    Whatever anybody can say, it's just wrong to destroy a good car for another.
    Pete
     
  9. jsa330

    jsa330 F1 Veteran
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    It's reasonable to conclude that a chassis, engine, drivetrain and the other components needed are available and not all that hard to find, and assembly of a complete car is certainly feasible

    However, it's not going to happen for the same reason that I didn't buy my 330 2+2 back from Hagerty: Money, and the market value of the finished product.

    A non-professional could conceivably do everything, but the cost of the body and other components would buy a complete car in excellent condition.

    That being said, I'd love to buy this body, get my wrecked 330 2+2 back and strip it of everything useable, and build a kickass 330 America "replicar".

    Just checked the listing for the body. No Bids. Seller's going about it all wrong...he needs to start way low with a reserve, and let the market do the rest.
     
  10. Dave46

    Dave46 Formula Junior

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    I have to agree with that thinking. 26 K starting bid pretty well stops the bidding right there. Hopefully it will go to someone bringing one back to life, better to be part of one which may be enjoyed and shown again than part of a Toyota after being crushed because someone didn't want it put on an off breed chassis.
     
  11. M.James

    M.James F1 Rookie

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    There are many people in the world who wouldn't blink if they lost $500K in Vegas on any given weekend. They know who they are. Some of them like Ferraris.....economic feasibility isn't really an issue. If I had near-limitless funds of discretionary income, I would rather start with such a project, and restore to my own personal tastes, vs. someone else's 'vision'....such a project would make perfect sense to me regardless of the 'return-on-investment' sillyness.
     
  12. jsa330

    jsa330 F1 Veteran
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    Anyone who would throw away $500K in Vegas is a moron, no matter how rich they are.

    "Limitless funds" is the key. For the majority of enthusiasts that are hovering around GTE's, money is a big issue and things like market value and return on investment are very important.

    The multimillionaires who buy 60's 2+2 models are doing so to complete a collection or as a low-risk driver; in the past they bought them for parts cars.
     
  13. donv

    donv F1 World Champ
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    Riiiight... so let's recap:

    A) There are a small group of people in the world who can drop $500k in Vegas on any given weekend;

    B) A small subset of those people like Ferraris;

    C) An even smaller subset of the people in group B) like vintage Ferraris;

    D) Of the very small population in group C), a few like 2+2s more than any of the other vintage Ferrari choices available for their "limitless funds";

    E) Of that extremely small proportion of people in group D, maybe someone who likes 2+2s is willing to buy a "project";

    F) Of those people, an even smaller group would pass by the "complete" projects, and buy one with no chassis or motor, thus ensuring that the resulting car, when completed for more than the price of a perfect GTE or a very nice 250PF coupe (at best), will be a "bitsa" and have associated stories.

    Sounds plausible to me!

     
  14. Glassman

    Glassman F1 World Champ
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    The last two posts pretty much hit the nail on the head. What multi-millionare would give a second look at a low end 2+2 car. These guy's are buying the big cars. It would be kinda like staying at the Motel 8 when there is a Hilton in town, just to be one of the guy's.
     
  15. ArtS

    ArtS F1 Veteran
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    Frankly, that body is good for two things:

    1. Replacing the body of a restored GTE destroyed in an accident.

    2. Using the body as static automotive sculpture - It would look nice sitting in someone's living room.

    Regards,

    Art S.
     
  16. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    They buy these 2+2's so that they can pay for them to be converted to a GTO or TR, because some millionares cannot afford the original AND have no car morals.

    These non-car enthusiasts that simply want to join in with the classic car movement are the cause of the problem IMO.
    Pete
     
  17. kare

    kare F1 Rookie
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    This is the attitude that is killing these cars. They deserve better!
     
  18. Ferrarinw2

    Ferrarinw2 Five Time F1 World Champ

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    I agree,there are several down under,its a joke and they talk of them as being GTO's ect.A fake is a fake.
     
  19. jsa330

    jsa330 F1 Veteran
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    Well, what are you waiting for then? Step up to the plate, shell out the cash, and rescue some cars.
     
  20. ArtS

    ArtS F1 Veteran
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    Scott,

    Kare has.

    Regards,

    Art S.
     
  21. M.James

    M.James F1 Rookie

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  22. jsa330

    jsa330 F1 Veteran
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    Good for Kare.

    Kare, apologies for my tone.

    Guys, scratch me a little and you'll find I'm still upset about losing #5409. Also about being more or less priced out of the market on a suitable replacement. This tends to make me a little testy on the subject.

    And that's my point...no matter how much we'd like to bring a good old car or cars back to life, those of us who need to be conservative with our funds have to sit on the sidelines. If this fact is offensive to anyone, I can't help it.

    I've made offers on two 330's, and looked seriously at a carbureted Boxer. The four-headlight 330 turned out to be solid but, for several reasons, was not a car I was ready to pull the trigger on. The two-headlight 330 was an excellent driver, but the owner turned down my best offer. The Boxer was an awesome car and a deal to go out on a limb for, but getting insurance was an insurmountable problem.

    In all cases, I would have had $100K-plus invested in the end result, around 120 for the 4HL or Boxer. Big bucks for me, and in fairness to mrs. jsa, money that needs to get spread around more. Is another Ferrari feasible--yes. Will it be a 330 2+2, other pre-'75 vintage Ferrari, or kick-butt early supercar--no.

    I've decided to go the carbureted 308, 308QV, or 328 route. A top-condition, needs-nothing example is half or less of what one
    of the aforementioned cars would cost, and as solid a financial decision as a 20+ year old lower-end Ferrari can be. I'm eagerly looking forward to a change of flavors, so to speak, there will be a few grand left over for performance mods, and mrs. jsa will get some rewards she richly deserves.

    All that being said, I'd love to buy the good-project 330 SII that Mike Sheehan has to share the garage with the rear-engine car. That one will have to pass, but who knows what the future will bring.
     
  23. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    Yes understand where you are coming from, BUT and this is a big BUT, you would not buy those 330's that you have been looking at to convert into a replica.

    Thus you are a good guy :).

    Some purchase these cars JUST to make a replica and could not careless if the car is perfect and solid, etc. Those people should be jailed IMO ;). Again these are NOT crashed or rusted out cars beyond restoration, that excuse has been proven wrong many, many times.
    Pete
     
  24. jsa330

    jsa330 F1 Veteran
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    Pete,

    Definitely! No healthy or restorable vintage Ferrari should be replicar-ized, and I'd never buy one with that intention even if I woke up with $100 mil in my bank account.

    The attitude I have about my totaled 330:

    First, I'd like to see a responsible person buy, repair, and restore it.

    Second, I'd rather see the chassis, engine, and serial number live on in a really well done replicar than see it completely parted out.

    Third, we all need spare parts. I'd much rather see it honorably parted out and go into the general supply than be made into a crappy replicar.

    The points I've been trying to make regarding the average owners of 2+2 Ferrari models: They're generally not wealthy, or are modestly so, and financial concerns are much closer to the surface than with very wealthy enthusiasts. Some people can't seem to understand this simple fact.
     
  25. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    I agree because I would be one of those people, ie. my only chance at Ferrari ownership would probably be a 2+2 model. This is probably why I get so upset when one is ruined by the replica mob.

    Pete
     

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