v12 stumbles above 4500 RPM | FerrariChat

v12 stumbles above 4500 RPM

Discussion in '365 GT4 2+2/400/412' started by wmjim, Oct 11, 2010.

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  1. wmjim

    wmjim Rookie

    Aug 22, 2006
    4
    South Dakota
    Full Name:
    Jim Kreber
    My early carburated 400 starts to stumble and goes no further than 4,500 or 4,800 RPM. I have an aftermarket tach and that starts jumping around at the same time. It runs beautiful up to that point. I replaced both sets of points, but it didn't help. I think it has to be the primary side of the ignition the way it affects the tach. Should I replace the coils? I doubt the distributor cap or wires would affect the tach that way, but maybe I'm wrong. Any ideas?
    Jim
     
  2. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    25,123
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    Can't argue with your logic. One thing you might try is moving the tach wire from the "-" terminal of one coil to the "-" terminal of the other coil to see if the tach behavior changes. However, it would be best to measure the dwell of each point to see if it's stable/consistent or not -- e.g., if the distributor shaft has a lot of mechanical runout this can cause trouble. Good Hunting!
     
  3. Ak Jim

    Ak Jim F1 Veteran
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 23, 2007
    8,489
    North Pole AK
    I won't claim to be an expert but I do have some experience with the Pertronix points replacement units and their matching coils. My car has operated from sea level to 11000' and temps from below freezing up to 90 degrees and has never missed a beat. It starts pretty much instantly whether hot or cold and pulls like crazy up to 6500rpm. Also the entire setup is not very expensive.
     
  4. alhbln

    alhbln Formula 3
    Consultant Owner

    Mar 4, 2008
    1,749
    Berlin, Germany
    Full Name:
    Adrian
    Assuming that the dwell is sufficient (see Steve's post) then this might indicate a problem with one or both of the two BAE201A ignition coils, sounds like a short on the primary or secondary windings. Your tach is triggered by the kickback voltage from the primary coil, so this also indicates a loss of spark energy. Steve's test will show which coil is not working correctly.

    Also make sure that your distributor cap is clean and free of dust, dirt or cracks. Broken spark wires or a defective distributor cap (cracks, cross sparking due to metal dust or humidity) will also affect the tach signal.

    If the dwell and points are set correctly, and your spark wires and distributor cap are ok, you might want to exchange both coils against a set of new ones. Bosch Red coils (0 221 119 030) are a good replacement and you can install them with the original Marelli coil clamp and resistor.
     
  5. cdu

    cdu Karting

    May 30, 2007
    77
    No experience with these motors but my diagnostic tree with any old car is (no matter the problem, unless it is something like the prop-shaft fell out or it has a flat tire)

    Check the points (visual inspection)
    Check the dwell (timing light)
    Check the plug wires (in the dark with a fine mist of water, look for sparks)
    Check the points again (pull dizzy and observe everything working to spec by hand)
    Check the spark (pull a plug and ground it against something not near sensitive electronics and observe spark)
    Check the points again!
    Check the cap and rotor (Nice and snug, no moisture, no pitting, no black marks, clean inside)
    Check timing at idle
    Check timing at full advance
    Check timing at idle again
    Check timing at full advance again
    Check the points again!
    Check the distributor again. Does it spin freely and smoothly, without any wobble?

    In your case, I'd also disconnect the tachometer and see if you've still got problems. Aftermarket anything is always an easy place to check for problems -- disconnect it and see if the problem persists... Your ears should be good enough to see if the problem remains.

    Okay, now check the rest of the stuff like mixture and carb balance and similar stuff.

    Some of these rules may be slightly amended if the car has electronic ignition, and if you've got a pure kettering ignition system then you should insert a "check points" in between every step (even if it means you check the points 3 times in a row...)
     
  6. wmjim

    wmjim Rookie

    Aug 22, 2006
    4
    South Dakota
    Full Name:
    Jim Kreber
    Thanks for your help. I replaced the coils with two new Marelli's and now it seems to run fine. This weekend I should have more time to check timming and all the other things mentioned.
    I called on the Pertronix replacement ignition system, and was told none were available for my car. Carobu has a conversion for $1,500, or a complete distributor replacement system for about $4,500. Is the $1500 conversion worth it?

    Jim
     
  7. guitnwithit

    guitnwithit Karting

    Jul 16, 2009
    54
    way to much, 350US should cover the conversion, (not including labor)
     

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