Used Race Cars 4 Sale Listing??? | Page 4 | FerrariChat

Used Race Cars 4 Sale Listing???

Discussion in 'Other Racing' started by enjoythemusic, Nov 6, 2006.

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  1. Admiral Thrawn

    Admiral Thrawn F1 Rookie

    Jul 2, 2003
    3,932
    Doing the math:

    F3 - 240hp, 550kg - 0.436hp/kg

    DSR - 170hp, 360kg - 0.472hp/kg

    DSR - 205hp, 360kg - 0.569hp/kg

    They are some nice numbers.

    :D

    How long does it take before you start getting a sore neck? In the F3 on a short track without conditioning, takes about 10 laps.
     
  2. ProCoach

    ProCoach F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Sep 15, 2004
    5,464
    VIR Raceway
    Full Name:
    Peter Krause
    John, when are you going to get a WF-1? <grin>

    Three laps (at T9) at Savannah in my Sports 2000...

    Steven, anything through Richard's hands is gold. He is a terrific man and was a great driver in the UK, then here. He is now spending time in New Jersey with Mike Andersen. You can contact him through Mike Rand's Hankook Pro FF2000 series. Great car!

    -Peter
     
  3. enjoythemusic

    enjoythemusic F1 World Champ

    Apr 20, 2002
    10,676
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    Steven
    Many thanks and yes, plan to take my time and all of 2007 will be NOT competition but for track/car learning. Will decide in early 2008 if things are a go for a wheel to wheel run with others for points. The guy at GTP and i already planned to do the custom bead seat, as the car is already setup for the Pennon seat (and has Pennon's latest aero package).

    Wow, if i was female just hearing that would get me all hot and w@t ;) Drove the Skippy Formula Dodges, but i know this is in a much more advanced and more powerful league. Many thanks for your comments about trusting the car/aero. During 2007 i may have some questions after driving impressions on setup and tweaking. Now i need to concentrate on physical conditioning during this winter/spring.

    Roger that. Thanks :)
     
  4. jjstecher

    jjstecher Formula Junior

    Jan 21, 2002
    962
    Rochester Minnesota
    Full Name:
    John Stecher
    Took me 4 laps at Road America and mainly it was because of the Carousel and the 10-12 seconds you spend pulling 2G's+. The other turns go by so quick you don't get that good of a burn going. Braking is a big killer. :D

    I am going to run the 04D for two years and then see where the DSR class goes. If participation numbers stay the same then I will move to the possible replacement for the WF-1 which is just purely excellent. If participation numbers drop I am going to move to F1000 as it seems to be the hot class and I really enjoy the bike engines as they are easy to work on and fun to run. :D Here is a little youtube love from a fellow DSR racer in a WF-1 driver at the runoffs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3zqmbhqTlk)...only wish it was me. :( Ahh next year hopefully I will be there. FYI...I destroyed my camera the first session I ran because of the vibration.

    A few other things to give you a heads up about that I found suck with such a little car and open track days.

    Number one you will be hammering peoples ass on the track even the first time out. You think your taking it easy but I'll put money on second lap on the track your 10 seconds a lap faster than in the 308. You really need to watch closing speeds on other cars and make it known in the drivers meetings that you want everyone to stay online and you will pass them. This way things are predictable to some degree...crap gets really scary when you have people trying to move out of your way when your closing at 50+mph rates. I learned this by about ending up a M3 bumper sticker. :(

    Number two others drivers will not see you. Your car will come up to about the other cars wheel wells tops. I always only pick times at open track days to run when the minimal cars are out on the track.

    Number three forget about working on any real setup items until you get use to the car. I would say it takes a good four-five days minimum at a track to get use to the new car and its limits...dont go tweaking until after that or you'll impede your progress.

    Number four your now going to need support at the track in the form of a friend or someone else to help you get in and out of the car, push you if your starter goes, help you move the car around the paddock, etc.

    For training I am focusing on balance, forearm and neck strength because that is what seems to be the weak links for me at the moment (besides testicular size). Cardio is always important but I have been running for years so its not to bad.

    Lastly man just enjoy the ride. Like I said the first time you get in that baby and strap in your hearts going to be pounding. You hit the starter and your heart rate only goes up...creep it out into the pit lane and then into track entrance and then hammer down. First, second, third, etc all go by so quick. Grinning ear to ear man...ear to ear. :D
     
  5. Animate

    Animate Formula Junior

    May 21, 2004
    272
    BC,Canada
  6. Admiral Thrawn

    Admiral Thrawn F1 Rookie

    Jul 2, 2003
    3,932
    What sort of braking performance do you get from top speed? What is their top speed? They're insanely light, yes? Less than 400kg?

    In F3 from ~ 230km/h, you brake for a hairpin in around 80m. From 270 - 280km/h, around 100 - 120m. That's a 550kg car...

    Still better than getting passed all the time. ;)


    Very true! It's extremely tough doing it on your own, especially on race day.

    Shoulders, back and traps are also important.
     
  7. enjoythemusic

    enjoythemusic F1 World Champ

    Apr 20, 2002
    10,676
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    Steven
    Many thanks and plan on a hard-core workout beginning months before my butt hits the bead seat. Am in good shape mind you (5' 10", 170 lbs), though will train for ENDURANCE and also play my drumset for longer sessions as well. Braking is said to be 60 to 0 in 100 feet, so that is indeed very impressive.

    ADMIRAL: top speed depends on gearing and downforce setting. From the data here an FC at WGI appears to top out at 145mph. Most turns average speed is 90mph. Can post detailed data graph if you want.


    Congrats and GREAT video! WOW!


    Have been data mining and the 308 does 2:26 at WGI while i have data that this car does 1:58 (theoretical best according to the Pi2 Windows Expert software is 1:56.7).


    Sorry to hear about the M3 incident and MANY THANKS for the heads up re:drivers meeting.

    FYI: Will be using harder compound tires (Hoosiers and Avons seem harder to get and have less track support) to learn on in hopes of reduced wear and possible flat spotting due to the usual learning curve. Will have two sets of slicks and one set of rains mounted with me (plus another garage set of tires when car is being transported. Yup, have fours sets of rims.

    Agree it can get scary fast and why i want to take my time to learn the car and no wheel to wheel competition for 2007. We are also going to hookup a dual-purpose rain light/brake light, as a brake light is usually desired for gentleman track days. She has a rain light on her now of course.



    Again, many thanks for the tips!!!!! Many, MANY thanks.


    Will do. Speaking of which, one of the groups i run with is SCDA (www.scda1.com) and the owner/operator was SCCA Championship in 1998 in FC (he does very low 0:52 at LRP in his FC). Wow, talk about someone upstairs looking out for me! Of course he is always at the SCDA events and am grateful he is there to help me. He no longer has an FC, and of course offered him to take mine for a drive for his input.


    Great tips and as a drummer for decades... still, will be training a lot here in the mountains. Have PLENTY of open space here with roads, mountain climbs, etc. plus freeweights.

    Yes sir :) Though caution will be key as from the data i have been seeing she is VERY impressive. Have been comparing entry/exit/straight line speeds between the 308 and the FC. It is great to have all the data as i can see braking points, speeds, etc to expect ONCE I GET FAMILIAR WITH THE CAR. Do not expect to be anywhere near what the data from the FC i am seeing until many track days with the car are under my belt. Still, it is good to have the data for comparisons/learning before my rear ever hits the bead seat.

    Did i mention that CAUTION is key. Oh, yes i did. Fully realize this car is vastly superior to the 308 and there is NO RUSH to get up to top capabilities on the first, second... or even tenth 20-minute track session.

    As always, ALL help is ALWAYS appreciated.
     
  8. life@8500

    life@8500 Karting

    Feb 22, 2005
    226
    Milford,CT
    Full Name:
    C Ryan Ramotar
    congrats Steve. The car caught my eye last week whilst surfing race cars.com

    i'll come say hi next yr as i plan to do a few scda events.

    also got wind of http://www.comssc.com - track days at nhis, mosport, lime rock. last week they closed out the lime rock event with 1.5 hrs of open track.....boy was i pissed i wasn't there....anyway i'm sure you've heard of them but just in case....
     
  9. enjoythemusic

    enjoythemusic F1 World Champ

    Apr 20, 2002
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    Steven
    She's a good car and we did a deal on his complete (huge) spares package.

    Look forward to seeing you! Yes, have done SCDA and also COM events. Sadly, but the reality is the 308 was totally outclassed by other cars in COMSCC (and frankly, the 308 is outclassed in SCCA too). Therefore i did not do much COM last year. In 2007 i plan to make a run for a trophy with COM, which is timed laps 'racing' versus wheel to wheel.

    See you at SCDA, COM and FCA events :)
     
  10. BigHead

    BigHead Formula Junior

    Oct 31, 2003
    995
    Outside of Boston
    Full Name:
    Dennis
    Steve - I just came across this thread and discovered what you just bought. First off, congrats - that looks like a very fast, very cool car.

    But are you aware of a potential problem/conflict? In your last post in this thread, you seem to indicate that you're planning on running with FCA, SCDA and COM.

    Heads up - at Watkins Glen (positively), and maybe Lime Rock and NHIS (I suspect, and quite possibly at all other tracks), the TRACK has a policy against allowing open and closed wheel vehicles out on the track simultaneously. In other words, they are not allowed out during the same session. This policy, I suspect, is due to the lack of visibility and potential for serious injuries (for the driver of the open wheel car).

    I came across this provision while reading the WGI track contract for next year.

    Which means that you're probably not going to be able to run with FCA and SCDA, and not with COM during their DE sessions (you may be able to run time trials with COM, dunno how they run that).

    Just to make clear, this is NOT a club policy. Rather, it's WGI's policy, written into every one of their contracts with each club. Verbotten. Again, I don't know if LRP or NHIS or other tracks have the same policy, but I think it's highly likely, so you really should check it out (and certainly before you show up at the track with your new toy).

    Were you aware of this before you bought the car? Jeez, what a bummer, I'm sorry. You may still be able to run Test-and-Tune at NHIS, and/or with SCCA during race practice. (Then again, maybe NHIS allows mixed run groups, who knows.) Just wanted to give you a heads up.

    vty,

    --Dennis
     
  11. enjoythemusic

    enjoythemusic F1 World Champ

    Apr 20, 2002
    10,676
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    Steven
    Dennis, thanks for the heads up, much appreciated. It seems there are quite a few open wheel guys making the rounds and we will find places to run. Perhaps FCA and SCDA will make runs groups for us open wheel guys, as COM and NHIS open day are no problem. Am working on getting a good group of like-minded open wheel guys and will see what we can do as a group to have our own sessions.

    i knew there would be some road bumps and am hope SCDA and FCA make run groups when quite a few open wheel guys want to join in on the fun. Fortunately we have plenty of time to get things going logistically. Have everything needed for SCCA license and just need the Dr. checkup and send in the paperwork. Appreciate the heads up and look forward to an awesome 2007 track season. This is great news as it means us open wheel guys will have our own track sessions not shared by slower saloon cars.

    Will coordinate with Ian and Bob in spring, COM already has open wheel guys taken care of and know FCA and SCDA would like to follow :)
     
  12. b-mak

    b-mak F1 Veteran

    Steven, just curious. At this point, with the package you have, why not bite the bullet and go SCCA racing?
     
  13. BigHead

    BigHead Formula Junior

    Oct 31, 2003
    995
    Outside of Boston
    Full Name:
    Dennis
    Good luck, Steve. The issue you face is that to be given a separate run group, you'll need the same NUMBER of cars as in other run groups. You can't expect that a club is going to give you 1/4th or 1/5th of the day when you've got only 2-5 cars, certainly not when other run groups have 15-25 cars. Typically, a club will allocate cars as evenly as possible (e.g., novice groups might "sell out" early, but still allow expert drivers until the last minute) to make sure everyone gets the same amount of track time.

    So you'd need to find 15-25 open wheel cars to run each event with you. And, of course, you would all need to be at the same level of experience, more or less (though if you're all running open wheel, I would expect that most would be actual SCCA racers). And keep in mind that, for FCA, all would need to be club members. AFAIK, nobody in the FCA runs an open wheel car - most run Ferraris, with a few Porsches, Vipers, etc. thrown in (especially in the instructor group). There are a couple of DSR/Radical guys, but that's it.

    Again, this is WGI's track policy, so I don't know what Bob can do for you, unless you can find 15-25 FCA club members to run open wheel. Keep in mind too that FCA intentionally runs only THREE run groups at WGI (beginner/novice, intermediate, advanced/instructor) to give everyone as much track time as possible, so I doubt very much that another run group could be added without taking away track time from all of the other participants.

    You may have better luck with Ian, but again, you'll need to bring in a large group of fellow open-wheel drivers with you.

    vty,

    --Dennis
     
  14. enjoythemusic

    enjoythemusic F1 World Champ

    Apr 20, 2002
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    Steven
    Just may do that, though already know few alternatives and want to take my time before doing SCCA races. It would have been nice staying with FCA, though would rather keep things safe as these open wheel cars are vastly more capable than most production saloon cars. There are other groups not mentioned on this board that do open wheel run groups :)

    Thanks again and look forward to as great 2007 season.
     
  15. enjoythemusic

    enjoythemusic F1 World Champ

    Apr 20, 2002
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    Steven
    Dennis,

    Agreed, and no need to bother them with FCA membership or cut into FCA's track time. Will miss seeing you at the track in 2007.
     
  16. enjoythemusic

    enjoythemusic F1 World Champ

    Apr 20, 2002
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    Steven
    UPDATE: Looks like SCCA events and COMSCC events are indeed in my future for 2007 and a few other league events as well. Seems there are MANY MORE events at attractive prices (and prize purses and sponsorship opportunities) now open to me versus the Ferrari stuff. After discussions with close friends, will do SCCA school to get to know the car ($350 for 2 days, very inexpensive compared to other schools) and just drive right in.

    The more i drive and work/tweak on the 308 here, the more ridiculous and lowering of patience i have for the car. Guess the ease of a proper tack car and that everything is at reach makes life easier. Another benefit, if i get stuck the US distributor is close by and only charges $50/hr.

    Next up is working and living at events so.... Just ordered a custom aluminum Cargopro Series 3000 7x18 enclosed v-nose trailer to tow/live/work out of. This alone should save me $3k a year in hotel fees :) Will be 'soft mounting' the corner weight scales inside and installing various Pit Pal and other bits. She will have the 110V package as already own a gas powered digital inverter generator (2.2kW) if i can't hookup to hard line power. My tow vehicle will handle this and, in fact, will be towing 800 lbs LESS weight than was doing this year with the heavy Ferrari.

    Anyone want to buy a top-quality (not the cheap version) 10 x 20 foot tent setup that includes side skirts? The previous owner paid around $1k for it. Make me an offer, she is in very good shape.
     
  17. BigHead

    BigHead Formula Junior

    Oct 31, 2003
    995
    Outside of Boston
    Full Name:
    Dennis
    Cool. Good luck!

    The SCCA and/or COMSCC is giving away prize purses now? Wow - who knew?

    vty,

    --Dennis
     
  18. enjoythemusic

    enjoythemusic F1 World Champ

    Apr 20, 2002
    10,676
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    Steven
    There is a league that does share a 'purse' at the end of the season. That is 'pro' level and something worth looking into in the years to come (MAARS or some such).

    SCCA is trophys of course and SCDA, as you well know, is for fun track time. i love SCDA and Ian runs a great track event! Tell many of my friends and guys i meet on the street to give it a go.

    Really appreciate everyone's help and color me a bit frustrated towards the 308 i guess. Am probably in a kinda 'bad place' emotionally and mentally about the 308, so much money poured into it... but have seen others pour A LOT more into their 308 trying for SCCA or the like and realizing a Ferrari appears almost nowhere for a reason in various American leagues UNTIL, perhaps, you get to HUGE money.

    Of course my lack of talent would NEVER at this time get me anywhere near those levels. Maybe one day... but not today, not tomorrow... and perhaps not ever. That's cool with me. But at what point is throwing good money after bad? Surely a 308, 348, and even a 355 is wasted money as compared to other options all things considered (IMO of course).

    Guess when i see the owner of Fchat competing with a Mazda, Bruce L of FCA NER using a S2k or Miata(?), and even Fchatter Chris who tried making a 308 be competitive gave up and he went vintage with different marque...

    Really wish the 308, a 348, or even a 355 be something worth entering in a league, though they don't seem to stand a chance in the real world of competition. Why is it no rich guys from FCA bother doing their 360 or 430? Am i wrong, is there someone out there trying it? The Ferrari Tax eats up any real track budget for small fries like me. This is probably why i totally gave up on the car for competition and see why the Miata, WRx, Z06 and others do so well in their perspective categories while no one seems to bother with a Ferrari.

    In Europe it appears there is more Ferrari cars in various leagues... Maybe it is time to move to Europe :) Wife and i have been discussing getting another place for the winter...

    Thanks again everyone. Hope my babbling makes sense.
     
  19. Admiral Thrawn

    Admiral Thrawn F1 Rookie

    Jul 2, 2003
    3,932
    #94 Admiral Thrawn, Dec 6, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  20. jjstecher

    jjstecher Formula Junior

    Jan 21, 2002
    962
    Rochester Minnesota
    Full Name:
    John Stecher
    If you watched the SCCA runoffs this year there were two 360's in the T1 class race. I think one finished 4th or 5th after starting from second. There are guys out there racing them...you just need deep pockets and a lot of luck that you don't bend much sheet metal.

    Admiral Thrawn. Great pics of what I believe is one of the first West cars down under. That baby is exactly the same as my car with the exception of the engine and the rear wing on that one being the newer model. Thanks for the pics!
     
  21. Admiral Thrawn

    Admiral Thrawn F1 Rookie

    Jul 2, 2003
    3,932

    No worries. I have a bunch of videos of it too that I'll post when I finally get around to uploading them.

    One thing that was a bit eye-opening though...

    Now I see why those litre bikes are so fast. Same engine, 175kg less. :D
     
  22. enjoythemusic

    enjoythemusic F1 World Champ

    Apr 20, 2002
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    Steven
    Just saw the DSR SCCA runoffs. WOW! Bet you are having an awesome time in that car!
     

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