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US Spec. 599 GTO Marketplace

Discussion in '612/599' started by tortesq1, Sep 18, 2015.

  1. speed racer

    speed racer Formula 3

    Feb 16, 2008
    1,445
    Burr Ridge IL.
    Full Name:
    PJ
    Well it's official.......F12 VS is now the F12 TDF!......Hold on to your GTO's and get ready for a nice price bump. All the naysayers from day one who said the GTO badge was simply a marketing scam have been proven wrong. While those of us who kept faith have been proven right and maybe, finally our GTO's will get the respect it always deserved from the rest of the Ferrari community!
     
  2. Andrew 912

    Andrew 912 Karting

    Dec 18, 2010
    160
    USA
    Full Name:
    AES
    Bravo PJ!!!! You said it right........
     
  3. tortesq1

    tortesq1 Formula Junior

    Feb 6, 2012
    844
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    Stephen H. Frankel
    +1

    Isn't it funny how the marketing literature on the F12 TDF focuses on how the factory made the car EASIER to drive for gentleman drivers at the limit ? This is in total and complete contrast to how the factory tuned the 599 GTO. In the GTO's case the factory intentionally made her incredibly difficult to drive at the limit. My guess is that the TDF will be an amazing utterly spectacular car that is easy (relative to the GTO) to drive extremely fast. Whereas the GTO will remain an extraordinarily tough beast to tame when driven by us mere mortals. Do you want easy or scary ? Personally I like getting the crap scared out of me when I drive my GTO. She lets me know I'm still alive and to always treat her with respect or she will absolutely throw me off the road into a wall.
     
  4. Tenney

    Tenney F1 Rookie
    Consultant

    Feb 21, 2001
    3,551
    Another one for your cause, tortesq1 ...

    Will the 599 GTO be the last PF-styled V/S 12?
     
  5. galt

    galt Formula 3
    Owner

    Jun 19, 2005
    1,077
    Curious what you mean by:

    "the factory intentionally made her incredibly difficult to drive at the limit."

    Only thing I can think of is allowing more SLIP Angle as per Speciale and scud. Not as familiar with the GTO. Perhaps you have some examples specific to the GTO?



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  6. M-individual

    M-individual F1 Rookie

    Oct 5, 2007
    2,937
    GTO, 458C, GT3RS
    You and I have had faith in the GTO from the very beginning (as many other first hour GTO owners on this board did and it is great seeing big fans / new owners of the 599 GTO making their appearance on the board as well) and our cars never failed to deliver :)

    While the F12 TdF is a magnificent machine … the 599 GTO hasn't lost any of its appeal. On the contrary. I'll certainly hang on to mine (not that I ever considered getting rid of her) and will keep enjoying this stunning, true driver's Ferrari for a long time (as I'm sure you will).

    … and just for the record: I do feel excited about the F12 TdF as it continues to show what Ferrari is capable of.
     
  7. tortesq1

    tortesq1 Formula Junior

    Feb 6, 2012
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    Stephen H. Frankel
    That is a great question. The best I can do is to take snippets from what the Ferrari GTO design team engineers and test drivers have been quoted as stating. The GTO was set up to appeal to the most serious drivers desirous of extreme performance in a road car. To effectuate that objective Ferrari engineers did many things to enhance the GTO experience so that it would perform better on a track than a typical Ferrari sports car. Some of those enhancements included, as an example, much wider tires. The goal was to maximize front end grip and effectively dial out under steer. Lateral grip was said to be as high as 1.25 which is extraordinary in a road legal car. Another enhancement was to design the rear end to have some play (looseness for lack of a better characterization as I'm not sure its the side slip angle) at the limit. Of course, the rear end will violently snap back into place with the cars electronic systems on. It seems as if the engineers wanted to keep the GTO handling setup as flexible as possible so that truly extreme drivers could take advantage of the performance envelope. That an outstanding driver could drift a GTO at 100+ mph around hairpin turn on a racetrack is exactly what the GTO is designed for (employing that massive front end grip with a loose rear end). I'm sure my explanation is feeble and terse but I will say from personal experience that everything the engineers did is noticeable when the GTO is driven hard. The truth is that for an average driver like me the GTO is an absolutely exhilarating, yet frightening experience when the car is pushed hard in dry conditions. In even slightly wet conditions the GTO is simply to violent and scary to push hard unless your an extraordinary driver (which I'm not). It isn't that the GTO is unpredictable, but rather that to be able to do what its capable of you need to be a really really good driver. That being said, from the factory pronouncements so far it seems that the F12TDF will have much of the "looseness" dialed out so that average drivers won't get bitten like average drivers in the GTO. I also think the F12TDF will be a much more friendly car to drive at extreme speeds (in general). Will the F12TDF exude that raw and visceral intangible feeling that we all love in the soulful GTO ? Only time will tell.
     
  8. galt

    galt Formula 3
    Owner

    Jun 19, 2005
    1,077
    Got it.. Sounds like their target was performance.. Rather than directly targeting difficult to drive. Understandable that a car with that kind of power at the rear wheels would be loose.. (or scary!) just by nature.

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  9. tortesq1

    tortesq1 Formula Junior

    Feb 6, 2012
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    Stephen H. Frankel
    Agree 100% in that the factory engineers had one target with the GTO - absolute performance without compromise and with zero regard for driver skills. Its in the latter area of driver skills that I think the engineers seem to have gone off the deep end in that the GTO seems much better suited to real hard core track junkies (legitimate racer types) than to "gentleman drivers". It should be no surprise that there are more than a couple of Challenge and XX drivers out there that not only have GTO's but who regularly track them. That, as they say, is the bottom line.
     
  10. glob1971

    glob1971 Formula Junior

    Jul 3, 2011
    422
    Czech Republic
  11. tortesq1

    tortesq1 Formula Junior

    Feb 6, 2012
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    Stephen H. Frankel
    Seems to be the case, but your guess is as good as mine. Looks are speculative and I'd be doing all of the other design houses a disservice to say that only a PF-styled car is attractive. IMHO the PF designed 599 GTO is one of the top 10 best looking F cars ever made.
     
  12. tortesq1

    tortesq1 Formula Junior

    Feb 6, 2012
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    Stephen H. Frankel
    I believed very strongly, as did many other owners on this listserve, that once it was determined that there would be no GTO moniker employed with the F12 model that 599 GTO prices would rise (and massively so at that). I think the appreciation rate will accelerate even further when it is determined that successor models to the F12 (several years down the road) will be hybrids with electric motors and/or turbochargers, etc. When a 12 year old US spec Enzo costs $2M-$3M I think there is a clearly delineated line as to where GTO prices could go. Will it happen ? Utter speculation. In the interim at least we get to enjoy our spectacular future legends before they become so valuable that we will be to scared to drive them on public roads.
     
  13. Thomas Quintin

    Thomas Quintin Formula 3

    Mar 2, 2005
    1,952
    Paris France
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    Thomas QUINTIN
  14. glob1971

    glob1971 Formula Junior

    Jul 3, 2011
    422
    Czech Republic
    Yes and this one that is probably the best deal in Europe :

    Ferrari 599 GTO - AUTO SALON SINGEN
     
  15. Az458

    Az458 Karting

    Apr 24, 2015
    160
    Rosso Corsa car with 700 mole sold by me for 775K in a week.

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  16. tortesq1

    tortesq1 Formula Junior

    Feb 6, 2012
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    Stephen H. Frankel
    I wanted the thread to stay on topic for US spec GTO's BUT I did check out the Lovett website and the 2 "Euro" GTO's you reference with $770K US dollar AP's have approx. 5800+ and 8400+ miles on them. Not that the mileage is ridiculously high for a 2011 model but I think that if these were very low mileage cars (ie. sub-1K miles cars) they'd have sold right away at a $770K AP. I also think that the Euro market including GB is different than the US marketplace in that there is more product available relative to population figures. There are only approx. 125 GTO's in the States assuming none have been totaled and excluding Canadian spec. cars. I think US spec limited edition F cars generally have higher AP's and lower mileage than their Euro counterparts. The exception to this is clearly the relatively rare RHD GB sourced GTO's which have already breached the $1M mark.
     
  17. 996cupracer

    996cupracer Karting

    Jan 12, 2006
    193
    Westport, CT
    While I was picking up my Scuderia from Miller today, a gentleman was picking up his silver GTO. I was really impressed how great the car sounded as he pulled away. They also had a rosso fuocco GTO on the showroom floor. Very cool but IMO the color with silver roof appeared a bit off to my taste. I had never seen one prior and today I saw two! A treat indeed.
     
  18. ttn27

    ttn27 Formula 3
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    Sep 30, 2010
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  19. speed racer

    speed racer Formula 3

    Feb 16, 2008
    1,445
    Burr Ridge IL.
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    PJ
    M........Maybe now FChat will finally get what we have been saying since day 1 and at long last give us what we have always deserved ..... At the minimum.....Our own separate 599 GTO thread.
     
  20. elipinski

    elipinski Formula 3

    May 14, 2006
    1,390
    Full Name:
    Emanuel

    u r absolutely right, unfortunately to late for me, as i was forced to buy the LaFerrari in order to move to the supercar section, where the 599 GTO belongs. Its all Robs fault😁😁😁😄


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  21. M-individual

    M-individual F1 Rookie

    Oct 5, 2007
    2,937
    GTO, 458C, GT3RS
    Amen GTO brothers :) Meanwhile, let's keep enjoying our GTO's.

    E-man: How is your LaF coming along? She is a blast to drive as you know by now I'm sure ;)
     
  22. g4titan

    g4titan Formula 3
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    Feb 6, 2010
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    Nico
  23. mcdbrendan

    mcdbrendan Rookie

    Mar 5, 2009
    17

    Anyone know what the car at Symbolic (179428) sold for? With that mileage I wouldn't be surprised if it was over $800K.

    The car at Miller (178505) was priced at $899K last week, according to one of their sales associates - looks like they dropped the price $50K since then. It will be interesting to see what that one sells for.
     
  24. speed racer

    speed racer Formula 3

    Feb 16, 2008
    1,445
    Burr Ridge IL.
    Full Name:
    PJ
    599"s are going for aprox. $200K and less......Yet our GTO's now in the $700K to $850K range are still occupying the same space with them and do not have their own section yet. Just how many GTO production models are our there?........Oh yeah...3.
     
  25. Nelsonc275

    Nelsonc275 Formula 3

    Sep 27, 2013
    1,589
    +1 Time for a change...
     

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