Upgrade A/C Condensors Using Microchannel Coil Technology | FerrariChat
Buy

Upgrade A/C Condensors Using Microchannel Coil Technology

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by Wade, Aug 9, 2011.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. Wade

    Wade Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Mar 31, 2006
    32,793
    East Central, FL
    Full Name:
    Wade O.
    #1 Wade, Aug 9, 2011
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2011
    From what I can tell, Ferraris after the 355 and 512 are using the modern microchannel condensers for their a/c systems. The older models use the tube & fin design, which is inefficient from the beginning, and especially for cars that are converted to R-134a.

    Has anyone considered or tried to update their classic/vintage Ferrari with this modern technology?

    http://californiahvac.com/MicrochannelCoilComparison.pdf

    Given the information above I would think that a Microchannel coil assembly of the same size as an OEM condenser would result in a significant increase in cooling effectiveness.

    BTW, some Porsche Guys are working on a solution right now...

    http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/617196-i-make-parallel-flow-micro-channel-condensers-911s-front-rear.html
     
  2. saw1998

    saw1998 F1 Veteran

    Jun 8, 2008
    8,237
    San Antonio, Texas
    Full Name:
    Scott
    #2 saw1998, Aug 10, 2011
    Interesting idea, Wade. I'm sure it would not hurt.

    However, IMHO, the problem with older Ferrari AC systems lies in the choice by Ferrari of the components of the entire system itself. The York compressors and the evaporator units used on, e.g., the 308s, are extremely inefficient and unreliable. Moreover, the fans motors are a joke. The Sanden rotary compressor used on the 328s are far better. I doubt that simply upgrading one component in the system would make a substantial difference, as AC systems need to be designed, in toto.

    Perhaps an AC expert will chime in here.
     
  3. smg2

    smg2 F1 World Champ
    Sponsor

    Apr 1, 2004
    16,046
    Dumpster Fire #31
    Full Name:
    SMG
    #3 smg2, Aug 10, 2011
    It's a great idea for those converting over to 134a. the condenser for r12 isn't efficient enough for 134a. I'll agree though that a redesign of the entire setup is probably best for the coolest cabin temps.
    better fan, rotary compressor, efficient condenser.

    There's been many threads about conversions and at least one complete redesign. I think the problem lies not in the inability to do it but cost, as with most all things Ferrari and esp vintage/classic Ferrari related the volume isn't there and the cost gets to be far to high to make it a worthwhile venture on a mass production standpoint.
     
  4. Wade

    Wade Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Mar 31, 2006
    32,793
    East Central, FL
    Full Name:
    Wade O.
    #4 Wade, Aug 11, 2011
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2011
    Thanks for the comments. It's a shame that Ferrari chose the wrong components; My (ex) TR-8 had an awesome a/c system and blew ice-cold air whether the top was up or down. It used a compact Delco rotary compressor.

    My Mondial Coupe was converted to R-134a before my time and it's currently in the shop for a/c repairs. Although everything appeared to be working correctly, including great airflow, it wasn’t blowing any cold.

    When I get the car back, I'll take some measurements for replacing the condenser.

    As mentioned, I hope an a/c expert offers some suggestions as well to determine this idea's viability.
     
  5. ago car nut

    ago car nut F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 29, 2008
    5,462
    Madison Ohio
    Full Name:
    David A.
    #5 ago car nut, Aug 12, 2011
    I have a street rod also with a Ferrari. Vintage air has a lot of new components for older cars. They don't have anything specific for Ferrari, but maybe some of there components could be adapted.


    Ago
     
  6. saw1998

    saw1998 F1 Veteran

    Jun 8, 2008
    8,237
    San Antonio, Texas
    Full Name:
    Scott
    #6 saw1998, Aug 13, 2011
    Vintage Air is great. They also do custom work. The hardest component will be the under-dash evaporator unit.
     
  7. Steve King

    Steve King F1 Rookie

    Feb 15, 2001
    4,367
    NY
    #7 Steve King, Aug 14, 2011
    I looked at them and was wondering if you could pull the OEM evap and install the MINI unit under the dash. Has anyone discussed this with a tech from Vintage air?
     
  8. rolindsay

    rolindsay Formula 3

    Jul 14, 2006
    1,022
    Houston, TX
    Full Name:
    Rick Lindsay
    #8 rolindsay, Aug 23, 2011

    Wade, did yuou ever find a condenser that will fit? I need a new condenser for an '83 Mondial. RetroAir makes a great replacement for the 308 but they would have to custom design one for the mondial...

    Send me any advice that you can please. rolindsay at yahoo dot com

    -rick
     
  9. Wade

    Wade Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Mar 31, 2006
    32,793
    East Central, FL
    Full Name:
    Wade O.
    #9 Wade, Aug 23, 2011
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2011
    No, I haven't yet... just got the car back from the shop. However, I need to pull the front spoiler to access the condenser. Right now, a rough guess is 12"x12"x2" but I really would like to find a used spare so that I can get the exact dimensions including the hose connections (size/type).

    But, according to Vintage Air for a R-134a system:

    On my 1988 Mondial there looks like plenty of room for a condenser that's much larger than OEM, although relocated.
     
  10. pippo

    pippo Formula 3

    Sep 25, 2005
    1,913
    FL
    Full Name:
    pippopotemus
    #10 pippo, Aug 25, 2011
    You might wish to PM Carreaper- he has done a few of these and knows other friends that upgraded older cars to newer 134a systems with good results. Im sure hed be happy to offer advice as a F chat member.....

    Good luck
     

Share This Page