Up or Down Vote: Is the 246GT(S) a Ferrari?

I find it amusing that, on page 16 of the latest "Cavallino" magazine (#215), reporting on the 2016 Ferrari Club of America International Meet, there is a listing of a "Dino Ferrari Award" for the "Outstanding Dino Ferrari." I'm so confused! Fred

 

As far as I am concerned, there was the Fiat Dino and the Ferrari Dino.

 

We are now!

 

Sorry Bradley, It is FIAT Dino, and... DINO.

The latter, body made by Scaglietti, chassis by Gilco, and FIAT parts (mostly).
+ Weber carburetors with a Ferrari tag, which certainly in the syndicalism of the day, it was not to lose track of what you sent to whom...
Ferrari instead of FIAT, or Lancia perhaps?
I mean they looked the same, even on a Citroen SM, just a tad different, 42 not 40.

The brand is DINO, made by Ferrari at some point on their grounds, which does not make it a Ferrari.
Even "they" called it a.... drum roll please...DINO

If they made refrigerators they would be whatever brand they decided to brand it, just like Renzo Rivolta did. So is an ISO fridge a Grifo?

Then, you have the following:
1. ISO, Isetta
2. ISO RIVOLTA, Grifo
3. BIZZARRINI, Strada etc.
All of the above, are individually branded, and registered as the 3 above, depending on application.

3 Different brands made by the same factory. So if you own one, what is it?

Just for fun, I am including my original registration. Do you see Ferrari anywhere?

"Fabbrica", means Factory and "tipo del veicolo" means type of car.

So: Dino, 246GT.

If it were a Ferrari, it would say Ferrari Dino 246GT. Just as a Ferrari 250.
This is Italian law.
Now, if in the USA, and elsewhere in the world, some clever DMV scribe decided it is a Ferrari, so be it.

Yes, everybody can go on forever that a DINO, has a tag on it that it was made by Ferrari, but legally, it is a DINO.
Clearly, even if FIAT now owns it, Marchionne would have a cow if
Italian law called it a: FIAT "La Ferrari", which in reality, that is exactly what it is.

If your name is Bradley, but instead of calling you Brad, your parents preferred Stan, and that is all you have heard all your life, definitely, do go by that name.

Even your wife met you as Stan. But, at DMV you are Bradley. Thus, what is your name? The one you go by, or the one on your license?

Yet, it is a free world and you can smack my ass and call me Sally, if you feel like it

Regards, Alberto
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Actually, I think that the "Sharknose," which of course was initially fitted with a 6-cylinder Dino motor and later a more specialised V6, was not a Ferrari, but a Dino rebadged (wrongly) as a Ferrari. Ferrari's first World Constructor's Trophy and America's first F1 champion clinched those titles in a Dino. The World Constructor's Trophy records should be amended. I will start a petition.

I had dinner with Phil Hill in 1998, and he agrees fully.

(Just kidding. But there is some truth to the assertion, and I did have dinner with Phil Hill in 1998.)

Best,

Andres

 

I saw this little ASA 1000 some years ago in Spain...
Like a Dino, if you look at the chassis and the engines of these beautifull little cars, you can also see the spirit of Ferrari. But it's still ASA.
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Alberto, my original Italian title for #06548 says 'Ferrari Sefac DINO 246 GT'

 

The FIA homologation Ner. 627 for the car, valid from 1/1/1971 stated: "Casa Costruttrice FERRARI S.p.A. - Sefac modello DINO 246 GT". So, for the Automobile Club D'Italia and for
the F.I.A., DINO was the model, not the brand (at least for chassis 00416 to 00920 stated in the homologation paper).
Alvaro

 

Yes, because Mr.Tudor wasn't the son of Mr.Rolex.

Enzo Ferrari wanted to dedicate A BRAND to his beloved son, that's much more than a simple name of a car.
Dino is elegant, so as the old Ferrrari were, it was designed by the same men that made the other Ferrari cars , it had a Ferrari formula one engine and above all it came out from the mind of Enzo Ferrari.
What else?
I voted a great 'Yes'

 

In the 1970's and even the 80's, almost all of owners with a Ferrari badge on the trunk would have voted no.

Today, maybe 70% vote yes.


The answer to the question depends on what point of time you were when you asked it.

I think the 308 had a lot to do with the Dino being accepted today as "a Ferrari". Most purists objected to the 308 being branded that way also. There's no question the 308 sold much better by having a Ferrari badge and not a Dino badge.

It's all about marketing. Today the value of the Dino is higher because most believe "it's a Ferrari".

My question is---if it's a Ferrari, then why isn't the Fiat Dino Coupe or Spider also "a Ferrari"? Or the Lancia Stratos? Or the Lancia Thelma with a Ferrari 308 motor also "a Ferrari"?

The Dino is what it is. And, there are no Ferrari badges on the car for a reason. Trying to call it something it isn't is actually cheating and twisting it's uniqueness in history.

 

I'm with you.

 

Classic Cars & The Art Of Restoration | Huffington Post

A HUGE YES!

 

I understand your point Volkmar, and you are absolutely right and, If you know Italy as well as I do, one day it is legal then the next it is not, and so on 'ad nauseam'.

It is mostly an arbitrary country relying on the man of the moment, behind the large desk, whilst reading the newspaper.

Bureaucracy was invented by the French and 'improved' by the Italians.
Of course, one thing is Sicily, another is Lombardy.
Rome, where all ministries are at, is another. Just try all three for the same issue.

That, applies to laws, taxes, etc.

Regards, Alberto

PS. A Dino is a Dino

 

Alberto, I agree with you completely. And of course, a Dino is not a Ferrari, it's a Dino 😎

 

I agree, too: a Dino is a Dino is a Ferrari ;-)

 

I think the 246 is a Ferrari.

If I had the money, I would build special projects 488GTS, a Dino tribute built on the 488 Spider. Incorporate design elements like the lift off targa roof, the rear window etc.... what are we talking about? USD 3mil?

 

for me the 488 Spider is the modern Dino... non of the latest Ferrari models has come closer....
fantastic design, lovely handling, rear window, closed engine bay (no glas)

 

Well - I'm lucky! My 79 Euro 308 GT4 is branded both Dino and Ferrari - with both from the factory. So I get to say it is both a Dino and a Ferrari. Lucky me I can choose whichever I like.

People that don't know what the story is see it and say without any prompting - WOW a Ferrari! Good enough for me.

Pointless discussion ;-)

 

Interesting discussion, but in my humble opinion, the answer is no. A Dino has just half the number of cylinders a Ferrari has. The Dino brand has been an offspring of Ferrari intended for selling cars of a different, lower class to enter a wider market. A Dino has been far away from a Ferrari and it is still - if you think of the cars Ferrari offered in the early 70s. Don't think about modern Ferraris to judge this question. Ferrari gave up this differentiation later to push sales of the Dino 308 GT4 in the US.
It is also interesting how to talk about a Fiat Dino 2400. Often people say, it's a Fiat with a Ferrari engine. However, it is a Fiat built by Ferrari fitted with a Dino engine engineered by Ferrari and built by Fiat. Pininfarina/Bertone supplied bodies that have been married to engines supplied by Fiat in Maranello. See below picture of Mike Morris book regarding this (which does not apply to the Fiat Dino 2000 models).
The third cousin, the Lancia Stratos, is definitely a Lancia. Another master piece of engineering in the long row of Lancia's strokes of genius. Ignoring all rules for selling a car successfully they built a race winner and took the Dino engine from the Fiat shelf to achive their only objective - winning races.
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On the October issue of ‘Ruote Classiche’, talking about the ‘mother of Dino’, the 1965 Dino Berlinetta Speciale, chassis #0840, of a 206 S, never been used in competition.

In this article Aldo Brovarone,
…remembers his creature, most innovative, during his 35 years at PF.

"It was very amusing and exciting to design what eventually would become the Dino.
It was Sergio's personal initiative in 1965 and he had Ferrari give him a 206 S chassis.

One day, Ferrari, came into our office and was galvanized by the idea of making a street Berlinetta. He asked us to take measurements and dimensions of the 206 S chassis, of the engine bay, and the cockpit. Then, he held his breath waiting for a definite design. In those days, each one in our office worked in an independent fashion, thus on Sergio's table many sketches arrived. Mine was the chosen one even though I was obliged to modify it sensibly when it was known than my proposal was not destined to give the face to a new Ferrari, but to a 'Dino', per the wishes of the Commendatore.
Thus goodbye to the front with the style of the Cavallino, the typical nosecone, egg-crate grille and the headlights recessed on top of the fenders…”

"...then, it was Fioravanti's assignment to transform this splendid berlinetta into the 206, then the 246..."

Regards, Alberto

 

It didn't take long for them to find their way back before it went into production.
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Andres, you're right in every single point - even the lynch mob
But this raises the next question: What's a 500 TR then? An ASA or even a Fiat?
Regarding race cars, it's a bit different. There might haven been technical restrictions by the respective formula.

 

...in the eyes of the makers of F-Chat, a Dino must be a Ferrari. If not, this thread would be located somewhere under 'Other Italian', or something like that.

 

I know it's a beautiful design and that some say the 360 tried to capture some of that.