Turbo R Known Issues?

Ron,

Sent you a PM


Cheers,
Aaron

 

If you can post any of the known issues it would help me also, as I am considering the same as a daily driver 7000 miles per year.

 

buy the later the better.These cars are hard on shockers and suspension.

 

The Turbo R and other "SZ" cars are hard-wearing, very well made automobiles. Most folks think they're getting into typical British trouble when looking at these, but I assure you, they're not like Jags or Land Rovers or MGs or Triumphs. Think an English car made with Mercedes-Benz attention to detail and engineering (of old days). I'll break this down as best I can, so grab yourself a beer and settle in for a lengthy read

Engine: The engine in the 'R' is the virtually bulletproof six and three-quarter litre Rolls Royce pushrod V8, originally introduced in 6.2 litre form in the Silver Cloud II of 1960 and still in use today in the Bentley Brooklands (albeit in slightly revised form). The "hard" parts of the engine are literally indestructible, and the ancillary equipment nearly the same. Among those in the know, these engines will easily see 250K+ before requiring any major freshening work, and that is usually limited to a top end overhaul (namely valve guides and seals). Fuel injection is standard 1980s Bosch CIS mechanical-type, and can be diagnosed and serviced by any competent Mercedes, Ferrari or Porsche mechanic. Ignition is (on the Turbo R) Lucas twin-distributor type and is surprisingly reliable as well. Things like distributor caps, etc...can be sourced from Bosch and cross over to some German cars of the era, so they're not terribly expensive. Things such as water pumps and radiators are of the heavy duty variety and last a long time, but also work hard in keeping that mass of an engine cool in extreme temperatures. Unfortunately, those items must be sourced from Bentley, although the radiator is made by Behr in Germany so if you have a good relationship with a German parts house, perhaps they can assist in obtaining one for a reasonable sum.

Transmission: The transmission is the tried and true GM Turbo Hydramatic 400, again, a unit that has been employed by Rolls Royce for decades, dating back to the Cloud saloons of the '60s. With the exception of a few changes made to the gear selection mechanism (RR used an electric solenoid for "effortless action" when you drop the column selector into gear), it is pretty much the same unit fitted to Cadillacs from days of yore and is perfectly suited to the task of handling the power and torque delivery of the engine. They rarely, if ever, fail and are kept happy with 30K mile fluid and filter changes. You will find that RR did make some changes to the bellhousing, so if you needed to swap gearboxes, you can't just run down to your local breaker's yard and pillage one from a Sedan deVille, however the internals could be of use if you rebuilt your old one. But all that aside, you should see an easy 200K from one of these 'boxes if kept serviced properly and not hammered on.

Suspension: As pointed out earlier in this thread, these cars to tend to eat suspension bushings and components, due mainly to the fact that they're tipping the scales at 5,300 pounds, unladen. Add in a full tank of hi-test, four adults, luggage and some occasional spirited driving and you have all of the ingredients for regular visits to the workshop for suspension freshening work. Not to say it's as frequent as having to replace tires on an Acura NSX, but every five years or so, depending on how many miles you drive the car, expect at the very least to need new front shock bushings, compliance mounts and "triangle lever" bushings. Also remember that that full tank of fuel and those four adults push the total weight over 6,000 lbs, so you're a quite weighty bit of rolling mass. Also pointed out earlier in the thread, it was suggested to buy a later car, and while I'd agree on some points, I'd disagree when it comes to suspension. The 1990 and up cars have what is called Active Ride Suspension, which is a complex, computer-controlled system and does fail with some regularity on little used cars. Those Active Ride dampers are over $1,000 each and require the use of the Rolls Royce diagnostic system to recalibrate or diagnose them in the event of a failure. The 1989 cars, such as mine, use the standard RR damper over spring assembly and provide what I feel to be a very equivalent ride, as compared to the Active Ride setup. Rear suspensions on all cars are hydraulic self-leveling type and generally do not give trouble with the exception of the "gas spring" accumulators needing to be changed about every 10 years or so. They are powered by the LHM system, which I'll get to in a moment...

Hydraulics: Ok, this is the usual thing that scares away most people from buying one of these cars. They hear horror stories of ignorant mechanics putting DOT 4 brake fluid in the system, which would then necessitate a $20,000 overhaul....and well, they're not lying. The hydraulic system operates the brakes and the self-leveling and must ONLY use Castrol green LHM fluid. The earlier cars used RR363, but that is not to be used in the Turbo R, as it will do as much damage as "regular" DOT 4 would. The system runs at extremely high pressures and needs specialized test equipment to be serviced and owners are well-advised to study up on the system because attempting to work on this part of the car yourself can be a huge mistake if you do not understand it. That being said, there ARE plenty of owners who work on their cars themselves, so it can be done as long as you have patience and are capable of understanding hydraulic systems. Fortunately, the RROC has a massive selection of factory tools and test equipment that they will hire out to members for a small fee, so membership in the club is essential if you plan on wrenching on your car at home.

Brakes: The braking system, as previously mentioned, is driven off of the LHM (hydraulic) system. Performing a brake job also requires the use of special tools and is a rather lengthy process (generally a rear disc and pad replacement will consume an entire day). Rotors are expensive, at about $250 a pop for fronts and $350 a pop for rears (from an aftermarket specialist....you're looking at about $600 each for fronts and rears from a main dealer), and because the front wheels have leading and trailing calipers on each wheel, you'll be replacing eight brake pads on the front axle alone. Again, this can be performed by a competent DIYer, but if you don't have the luxury of laying the car up for a few days at least, you'd better send it to a workshop for this fix, but all said and done, that would cost you upwards of $4,000 at a dealer.

Electrical items: The electrics in these cars are very stout. A decent bit of it is Bosch (window motors, etc..) and nothing really ever gives trouble with the exception of the front seat ECUs. They have volatile memory in them and require batteries to keep the front seat memory positions programmed. Over time, the batteries can leak and ruin the ECUs, setting you back about $400 each for a reman unit from a specialist. Other times, you will luck out and just have to replace the batteries. When they fail, unfortunately they take out operation of the seat until they're replaced, so it's advisable to change them every 5 years or thereabouts to avoid problems. Another note of mention are the windows moving slow, similar to the Ferrari malady. Believe it or not, to save weight, RR used thin gauge wire to power the window motors and, as with Ferrari, over time, this becomes problematic. There are inexpensive cures, such as adding relays (again, just like Ferrari), which transform the windows to like new operation. Lastly, the wonderful split-level climate control system can be expensive to rectify, however, it rarely gives problems.

Tires: You'll have a whopping TWO choices of tire for your Turbo R. Either the Avon Turbospeed, at $400+ each or the Goodyear Eagle LS at about half that price. Ok, the snobs will tell you that it would be heresy to put anything other than a Turbospeed on your RR/B, and yes, they are very nice tires, but let's equate spending $1,600 for those to buying TRXs for your 308. No. Thank. You. I have the Goodyears on my car and considering they are generally found on big Yankee luxo barges, they serve the Turbo R's purpose of smooth, quiet high speed transport just fine. Your final option is to upgrade the wheels to later 'RT' items, which will allow more choices of rubber.

In the details, as one reviewer put it after testing my personal car:

Our friends at Car and Driver once described the Rolls-Royce Silver Spur as “a really bad ’80s Town Car”, but that’s just a typical bit of C/D hyperbole meant to fill in the spaces between WeatherTech advertisements. The cars made at Crewe before Rolls-Royce and Bentley went their separate ways are part of an era which will never return; a time where there was always enough time, so to speak. The sheer number of man-hours which went into the construction of a 1985 Mulsanne would probably build ten new Continental GTs. The romance and reality of the old R-R/Bentley will never be equaled, and you can buy your own piece of the dream for less than it would take to get behind the wheel of a Prius.

The Bentley is a large car, even by the bloated standards of the 2008 luxury market. It’s both longer and heavier than a modern S-Class, and nearly as big as the current Flying Spur. Don’t expect a Spur’s worth of interior room, however; the Turbo’s packaging dates all the way back to the introduction of the Silver Shadow in 1965, which means plenty of shoulder room, thanks to the lack of “tumblehome” in the greenhouse, but a relatively cramped cockpit, because forty years ago your average British aristocrat was considerably smaller than your humble six-foot-two, two-hundred-and-twenty-five-pound author. The ignition cylinder is mounted high on the dashboard, to the left of the steering wheel, and, like the rest of the car, is clearly marked in plain English. If you want international icons for cruise control, headlight operation, or even the defroster, then perhaps you would be better-suited to a Maybach. This is a Bentley, and we use the Queen’s English here.

With a quick twist of the key, the Turbo fires up, and it is time to select a gear. Later Bentleys had overtly sporting console-mount shifters, but this is an early model and therefore shares a zero-effort electro-hydraulic column selector with the Rolls-Royce Silver Spirit. Two decades’ worth of innovation in electronic controls has taken the wonder out of this particular device, but prospective customers in 1989 would have been amazed at the effortlessness with it operated. The seating position can best be described as “throne-like”, the combination of high seat and low beltline not entirely unlike that of a first-generation Range Rover. In a country mostly without SUVs and pickups, such as Cold-War-era Britain, the Bentley driver would find himself looking down on virtually all traffic, literally and figuratively.

The traditional distinction between Bentley and Rolls-Royce — namely, that one drives a Bentley but is driven in a Rolls-Royce — was probably responsible for the fact that the Turbo was introduced as a short-wheelbase model only, sharing a bodyshell with the Rolls-Royce Silver Spirit. A long-wheelbase model appeared later, but the SWB car still outsold it almost four to one until the Turbo received major revision in 1995, at which point the longer car gained momentum and became the customer favorite. Our tester is the short-wheelbase model, but it’s still far from nimble. The long hood, which has a flat winged-B emblem on the rounded, body-color grille, seems to stretch to the horizon. Once underway, the controls prove to be distant but trustworthy, enabling the driver to accurately place the big car within the lane or around a sharp corner. Aaron’s replaced the original Avon Turbospeeds with Goodyear Eagle LS tires, but the Bentley is certainly no autocross star. Once the Turbo takes a “set” in a corner, it’s reluctant to change course, and the combination of tall sidewalls and more than five thousand pounds in dry weight works effectively to damp one’s desire to toss it around.

Perhaps the most satisfying aspect of the Turbo R is its unrelenting authenticity. After eighteen years of Lexus advertisements, most of us associate “luxury” with a sort of artificial, anesthetized, cotton-balls-in-the-ears quiet, but the Bentley is, by contrast, a bit noisy. The engine is not loud, but there’s a constant low-key symphony of machinery in the car, much of it related to the whirring and clicking of the delightful two-level HVAC system. “Lot of potentially expensive stuff going on behind that dash,” Aaron comments, and he’s right, but surely the pleasure of having hot feet and a cold breeze in the face, or the reverse, makes the potential for repair worthwhile. The “organ-stop” dashboard vent controls work just as one would expect, slamming home with the kind of mechanical solidity which simply doesn’t exist in a mere “luxury car”. A massive polished plate in the doorjamb announces that this is a BENTLEY, PRODUCT OF CREWE. The polished-wood door caps have three separate types of wood cut into a flawless veneer pattern. The dashboard is leather, but the stitching is deliberately hidden where a modern car would flaunt its seams. There’s no reason to show off the leather dash; a Bentley customer assumes that his motorcar possesses the finest possible dashboard trim and does not need to demonstrate it to others with exposed stitching. Everywhere you look, there’s authentic, hand-built excellence. The modern Flying Spur makes a solid attempt at recreating the traditional Bentley interior, but there’s a difference between imitation and reality. This is the real thing.

Which, of course, would be beside the point. The purpose of a Bentley Turbo is to cover ground rapidly in complete comfort, and if the performance obtained by approximately three hundred and fifty horsepower working against the aforementioned two-and-a-half-ton-plus weight no longer startles us as it did the journalists of the day, it’s still more than adequate. The tried-and-true General Motors three-speed automatic is eager to select top gear at the earliest opportunity, but a right-foot call to the boiler room still produces a solid shove in the back, gathering speed in a strong, linear fashion. Our test car recorded an indicated one hundred and thirty miles per hour on the day of our test, and if that isn’t quite Veyron velocity, rest assured that it is far beyond what one would manage in a Silver Spur. This is a motorcar perfectly at peace with its mission in life.

There’s simply no feeling in the world to compare with the sensation of operating a proper, handbuilt English motorcar. This car would dignify the most miserable of miscreants, which is no doubt why rappers and professional athletes are so anxious to be seen behind the wheel of the modern Continental GT and Flying Spur. As nice as those modern Phaetons-in-Bentley-costumes are, however, they aren’t the real thing. This Turbo R is the real thing — but as wonderful as it may be to drive, and as affordable as it can be to purchase, it won’t be cheap to run. If you can live with that, then you might want to emulate Aaron and adopt a Bentley of your very own. You’re unlikely to be disappointed.

Well, I think that's about all I have to offer this Saturday morning. Hope you enjoyed it!

Cheers,
Aaron

 

nice colour combo.
I just sold a '92 Mulsanne S that was a nice car.
IMO the car to find is the Turbo S.
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Thanks for the great write up.

 

Thank you for taking the time for the write up, so much detail, and yes these are great cars, especially the ones you described. The newer ones maybe be better on some mechanical level, but they are not true Bentleys or RR's. I will do further homework and make the proper decision, I had been leaning towards a 1993 - 1995 Bentley but now am reconsidering pre 1990.

 

brother inlaw has the turbo S, before this he had and prefered his 1990 car as it had a softer ride and steering column gear change.

 

What a great write-up Aaron...

Makes me want to go out and find an '89 model today!

Mike in Kuwait

 

Hi guys,

My pleasure on the write up. More vintage RR/B's need to share garage space with F-cars!

If anyone has any specific things they'd like to know, you're welcome to shoot me a PM. I've turned plenty of wrenches (oops, meant to say "twirled plenty of spanners") on these things over the years.

Cheers,
Aaron

 

Hi Aaron,are you a Silver Cloud series person?
I've had 2 S3 Flying Spurs both Australian delivered new (The only 2 Series 3 cars)
Your thoughts on the Air Cond.
Valentine cream car had boot air with inlets in rear parcel shelf.The blue car boot air via outlets x4 in the roof.
The air cond is poor in cold and strength compared to my fathers long owned (1967) factory fitted Silver Cloud 3 Air/cond.
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Have you checked the usual suspects such as freon level, condition of dessicant, etc...?

 

all checked just not cold as per a Silver Cloud 3 factory a/c.
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When considering a Bentley or Rolls-Royce, I suggest looking for one of the "20,000 series" cars built between 1987 1/2 and 1989 (i.e. last 5 digits of the VIN being the greater than 19999, but less than 30,000) as these cars had huge improvements that make them much more reliable and service-friendly than the pre-1987 1/2 models, yet are not overly complex and expensive to service as the 1990 and newer models are.

The 1989 Bentley Turbo R I owned is the most reliable and pleasurable exotic I have owned to date. Other than routine fluid changes, a Bosch A/C relay (less than $30) and the 3rd brake light bulb that (less than $2) were the only items that failed over 3 years of ownership and 10,000+ miles of driving. The Turbo R's build quality never ceased to amaze me and I found that the car attracted more attention and respect than both of my Ferraris ever did combined. If I could have back one of the cars I previously owned back, it would be this one. Below is a photo of chassis# X25520 which is High Hyde White with Cherry Red hydes:
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good looking car.
gear change column or console?

 

Just great guys, thanks a lot. I think y'all just added yet another car to my "vehicles I must own someday" list. The wife will be thrilled.

 

they are nice to drive, I loved my '92 Mulsanne S.

 

Speaking of 89 Turbo R's, here's one on ebay right now: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Bentley-Turbo-R-TURBO-R-1989-TURBO-R-DARK-GRAY-BLACK-IMMAC-COND-SO-CAL-CAR_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ72Q3a1156Q7c66Q3a2Q7c65Q3a12Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1308Q7c301Q3a1Q7c293Q3a1Q7c294Q3a50QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem180327453854QQitemZ180327453854QQptZUSQ5fCarsQ5fTrucks

Reserve not met at $15.5K. States window sticker was 190K and the first 25K will take it home.

 

I'm working on a PPI on this car and will know more tomorrow. Thanks to a great deal of insight from this thread, the RROC, Bergxu and my local shop owner that services these cars I feel it would be a great car to add to the garage. I intend on driving the car on a "daily" basis as I do all of my cars and look forward to enjoying it for its intended purpose of some extended road trips.

 

Thank you! All 1989 models have the gear change on the column.

 

If an owner lives in an area without a Rolls Royce Dealership....then what? Basically screwed? Or can those tools be "borrowed"?

Any other comments about the feasibility of owning such a vehicle without a dealer would be appreciated.

Thanks!
Wes

 

What would you consider a fair price for a 1989 with 34000 miles??


Edit: Maybe I should clarify, I am not selling a car but have found one coming up at a local auction.

 

Another question that brings to mind....

Since these cars are said to be better driven than not, a car that is 20 years old
with only 34,000 miles means it was only driven around 1,500 miles a year. Could
that mean the car sat too long and will have more issues than one driven more?

 

Wes,

Two things:

A low mileage car will most certainly require more "recommissioning" work than one that has had regular use throughout the years, as evidenced by my '89, which I bought with a tad over 100K on the clock, and only had to perform routine maintenance on. Turbo Rs, like any car, don't benefit from long periods of disuse, so quite honestly, you'll be on the winning end of the deal if you find one with +/- 100K on it and good history. Not to mention, that car should cost you no more than $16K, which is the proverbial steal for one of these cars. Now, keep in mind one thing; they are HARD cars to shift, so when your honeymoon period ends, don't think you'll get out from under the car easily, especially one with six digits on the odometer showing, so plan on buying one right and keeping it for a long time. As I said in an earlier post, the drivelines are tough, and I know of one fellow with 275K on his Turbo R without any major overhauls having been required. What will eventually drive you mad is how expensive some of the parts still are, and you'll remember how little you paid for the car when you are shelling out big bucks for brake parts and try to justify spending that money over and over because soon your $16K Bentley will be a $20K Bentley. But hey, at the end of the day, if you like the car, who cares? But I've seen many an owner throw in the towel because they felt they were at the "point of no return" with their car, dollar-wise.

If you don't have a dealer nearby, it's not the end of the world, but I'd recommend at the very least, a competent import shop. You'll be able to rent any special tools you may need from the RROC (the fee is high, but is refunded upon return of the tool to them). The factory Turbo R shop manuals are over 1,400 pages, and I'd recommend investing in one, or at least downloading a copy (I think I have a copy somewhere on my HD I can send you if you PM me your email).

Right now, I do have two Bentleys for sale, a 1990 Turbo R and a 1989 Mulsanne S. Both are in good, driver condition. Neither are perfect, but they are priced accordingly and I've done the major services on both and have freshened them accordingly. Again, PM me for more info, or email at [email protected]

Hope this helps!

Cheers,
Aaron