TR engine knock

Can you tell me more about this?

 

40k.

I'd be fine with this, so long as the dealer oversees the entire operation.
Otherwise there's the risk of one party blaming the other if there's an issue later.

I'll let you know.

I'll take about a week to think about the best way forward.
It's not just about the technical aspects, but also some EU legal constraints which are a total nuisance.

 

What about the fresh top end vs. the tired bottom end?

For a balanced, optimum result, one would have to rebuild the entire engine.

 

Thanks.


Options:


1. Doing a full rebuild.

Issues: because of EU laws I'd have to mothball the engine for the duration of the legal process.


2. Doing the minimum - rebuilding the RH top end.

Issues: doing the top end only, even if it's both sides, would leave me with an engine bearing the marks of catastrophic failure,
and possible hidden damage, and frankly diminished value. Considering this wasn't an act of God, that's a compromise.


If anyone has a lead on a good european TR engine please let me know.
That would allow me to go for option 1) without immobilizing the car for the duration of the legal process with these *******.



Other options:

3.. Go electric during the legal process, assuming it's reversible and comparably priced.

 

BTW, is there some sort of sn# or unique identifier, or at least a manufacturing date on the cylinder heads?

 

You have the same process in Germany with the gutachters etc, so you know what I mean.

 

Does anyone have experience with the Superformance valves or pistons?

 

Our neighbor is German so he told me about the gutachters. That's scary about 'getting the engine back'. They literally take your engine?

The reason it took us so long to take the engine apart is because I had to follow the legal procedure.
The shop/seller was summoned to two inspections by our insurance. They didn't come.

The F dealer did all the dismantling etc in the presence of the inspector.
Now it goes to court and there's another inspection, ordered by the court. Kafkaesque system.

I'll work with the local lawyers to ensure compliance, but the surest way is to procure another engine.
I hired lawyers elsewhere also, in case there's a way to expedite this nightmare.

 

Camshaft seized for the same reason - https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/seized-exhaust-cam.225944/

 

Background on this company is the proverbial can of worms

https://eu.indystar.com/story/sports/motor/2017/09/12/spms-indy-500-partner-french-businessman-convicted-murdering-his-wife/658545001/
https://www.roadandtrack.com/motorsports/a12234480/partnering-with-a-murderer-proves-racing-teams-will-take-money-from-anyone/

 

Gents,

The dealer wanted to do a full rebuild: new head for the damaged one, intake cam, rebuild the other head,
new valves, etc all around, new cylinder liners, pistons and rings, new rod bearings, main bearings, verify the crankshaft,
new belts, basically everything, 120h of labor, adding up to about $70k.

At current valuations, that's not going to happen.
I can sell the car as is and lose half that with a whole lot less stress.


What do you think about the other options mentioned below.

The car has 39k miles, went through a major and sympathetic mechanical
and cosmetic restoration about 1 year ago, barely driven since.

Damage: seized the intake cam on bank 1-6, damaged head,
broke that timing belt, bent all intake valves on 1-6, pistons #1 has four marks,
pistons 2-6 have two marks each. Pics of the damage above.


Repair options:

1. good used head and cam for the damaged ones.
verify undamaged head to ensure cam caps are installed correctly etc.
take out sharp edges from piston marks - is there a name for this op?
leakdown and compression tests. If the tests are good, new belts, close it up and reinstall.


2. as option 1) but with two rebuilt heads instead of one used one.


The dealer has so far said they will not install rebuilt heads without also doing the bottom end.
They claim the increased compression can damage the bottom end.
I told them I'd waive their liability regarding that but they're not budging.

Everything I've seen on Fchat, including cases with similar damage,
suggests that changing the heads, even with rebuilt ones, without doing the bottom end
is not an issue, so long as the leakdown shows no issues.

Considering the damage shown in the pics what do you guys think?

I don't want to do something that would cause more damage,
but I think the dealer is exaggerating the risk.

The engine is out and partially disassembled and other trustworthy options are very limited,
so I'd prefer to do the job there.


3. buy known good used engine for not much more than option 2),
but if I went this route I'd probably swap heads and keep the original engine in the car.

 

If I'm paying it makes no sense at current valuations, a NOS 512M engine is less than the rebuild,
and I have a buyer for the car as it is for half the loss and none of the stress of an engine rebuild.

Speaking of the 512M engine, anyone know what mods would be needed to mount it in a TR?

I would give them a waiver regarding the bottom end.
I think indi shops wouldn't have too many issues with this.
At least one Ferrari indi shop in the UK would do it, already discussed in detail, but shipping the car there in pieces is a concern.

The Ferrari dealer has no issue putting another complete engine in, already found one - I'm going to proceed with one of the options this week.
If I get the extra engine, I'd still prefer the heads swapped to keep the original engine number, which they're not happy with.

What's your take on changing the heads without doing the bottom end?
Purely from a technical perspective? If the leakdown is good of course.

They're a racing group with a several satellite companies. They removed the company that issued the invoice from the commercial register.
I have lawyers after them but it's going to take time.

 

BTW, in the following thread, down the page, there's mention of Ferrari updating the design of the dowel that feeds oil to the head.
Anyone know more about this?

https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/testarossa-camshaft-seized.44299/

 

Seems to be what most people did, whether because of a seized cam or broken belt, and there were no issues.
If the dealer agrees, I'd go with it.

Independent. Guess you'd normally spell it indy.

The shop in the UK is completely fine with doing the head only if the leakdown's ok.
But they're concerned about oil starvation to the head, and it kinda makes sense. You alluded to this in an earlier post.
I'm going to look at the engine again.

Is the cap the cam seized on the furthest from the oil supply?
I'm not entirely clear on the oil path to the caps.

 

I appreciate your independent advice
Thanks.

 

Regarding the oil dowel, apparently the old part # is 124382 and the new design is 152327.