TR - Billows of white smoke! | FerrariChat

TR - Billows of white smoke!

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by testarob, Jul 5, 2006.

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  1. testarob

    testarob F1 Rookie

    May 13, 2006
    2,504
    Debary, Florida
    Full Name:
    Rob
    Driving to work this morning in my 86 TR. Looked out my rear view mirrow to see billows of white smoke ! ! Car was not sputtering, although there was a backfire that made me look back. Oil pressure gauge was in the middle (not high, not low). I was just down the road from Ferrari of CF so I pulled in in there. Oil was pouring from the engine somewhere, couldn't see exactly where. OK ... maybe pouring is a strong word, but it was more than a drip for sure!

    AARRRGGGHHHH ! ! (Guess I should be glad I didn't go up in flames).

    More later.
     
  2. Simon^2

    Simon^2 F1 World Champ

    Oct 17, 2005
    12,313
    At Sea Level
    Sorry to hear this.

    Was the smoke from the exhaust pipes or from the engine bay?
     
  3. TheBigEasy

    TheBigEasy F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    Jun 21, 2005
    16,862
    California
    Full Name:
    Ethan Hunt
    Could be just steam from a blown radiator hose or something. Good luck, hope it doesnt break the bank.
     
  4. Simon^2

    Simon^2 F1 World Champ

    Oct 17, 2005
    12,313
    At Sea Level
    Unlikely, if there was indeed leaking oil...
     
  5. testarob

    testarob F1 Rookie

    May 13, 2006
    2,504
    Debary, Florida
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    Rob
    From the quick glance I got, it appeared that the smoke was from the oil dripping/pouring on the exhaust. Neither I nor the Ferrari mechanic could tell exactly where the source was without putting it on the lift. I had to leave, so don't know yet.
     
  6. PerryJ

    PerryJ Formula 3

    Jun 5, 2003
    1,909
    N. Alabama
    Full Name:
    John Perry
    good luck Rob keep us posted.
     
  7. Bullfighter

    Bullfighter Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jan 26, 2005
    22,352
    Indian Wells, California
    Full Name:
    Jon
    Ugh. :( Well, at least it happened right near the Ferrari dealer.

    My TR dreams are hanging in the balance here...
     
  8. Simon^2

    Simon^2 F1 World Champ

    Oct 17, 2005
    12,313
    At Sea Level
    That is most likely the better scenario...
     
  9. bpu699

    bpu699 F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Dec 9, 2003
    16,210
    wisconsin/chicago
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    bo
    Hopefully just a cracked oil line...good luck!

    All the plumbing in the testarossa does make it interesting. It seems that many of the lines are NOT replaced during majors. My car has records for many expensive services/majors/etc. You would think that pretty much every line in there should be brand new...NOT. When I put my car on a lift, there are MANY original looking oil/water/vacum lines...sigh.

    When I do my major in 3 years, I plan to replace every one of these...

    In 2 years of ownership, I have had to replace:

    1) one leaking gas line
    2) One leaking oil line
    3) one ruptured alternator belt...

    Not a big deal in 4000 miles of usage. But if I had to take it to a dealer every time, I would be miffed...
     
  10. ClassicFerrari

    ClassicFerrari F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 7, 2004
    16,798
    Toronto
    Full Name:
    Vasco
    That sucks Rob. I truly hope it's nothing serious.

    Best,

    V..
     
  11. testarob

    testarob F1 Rookie

    May 13, 2006
    2,504
    Debary, Florida
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    Rob
    In my dream world it's only an oil line... in my nightmare it's a cracked block.

    Truth lies inbetween. Apparently it was a blown seal between the axle and the gear box. Gear box fluid leaked down the axle and smoked big time when it hit the exhaust.

    That's why we couldn't see the source of the leak when we popped the engine cover.

    Oh well ... FofCF gets more business. The joys of TR ownership.
     
  12. jimpo1

    jimpo1 Two Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Jul 30, 2001
    24,510
    Dallas, TX
    Full Name:
    Jim E
    If it makes you feel any better, I had the 'clouds of white smoke' issue with my 328. It was oil leaking on my exhaust manifold, I've forgotten from where. Wasn't a major deal.
     
  13. bpu699

    bpu699 F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Dec 9, 2003
    16,210
    wisconsin/chicago
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    bo
    I had those replaced as part of the PPI. It wasn't that much, 700$ or so for both, as I recall...

    You are talking about the seal where the CV joint spline enters the transfer case? I am trying to imagine how this would cause tons of smoke. Its quite a ways from the exhaust...
     
  14. Bullfighter

    Bullfighter Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jan 26, 2005
    22,352
    Indian Wells, California
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    Jon
    This sounds like relatively good news - no engine damage, no engine removal (?)

    It is amazing to have so much drama from a blown seal...
     
  15. J.P.Sarti

    J.P.Sarti Guest

    May 23, 2005
    2,426
    Hopefully its not a blown differential, but thats what happens when they go
     
  16. dasMafia

    dasMafia Formula Junior

    Jun 9, 2004
    422
    Lincoln, Nebraska
    ooooh, burning gear oil STINKS....

    if you got it pulled over quick, everything SHOULD be OK... I'd just change the gear oil every 3-4 months for the next year...


    unless they are tearing it all down to inspect...

    swap the seal, fill with new fluid, drive.
     
  17. testarob

    testarob F1 Rookie

    May 13, 2006
    2,504
    Debary, Florida
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    Rob
    That's about what FoCF quoted me...
     
  18. Drew Altemara

    Drew Altemara Formula 3

    Feb 11, 2002
    1,504
    Tuscaloosa, AL
    Full Name:
    Drew Altemara
    Hi Rob,

    I hope FOCF is right about it just being a seal. If so you are very lucky. A leak from the seal will produce tons of smoke as it slides down the transaxel case and hits the headers. I have been through this on a 512BB which is the same basic arrangement.

    Most failures of this type come from the two piece welded differential busting, putting pressure on the differential side cover and blowing out the seal and cover as J.P. Sarti has said. I am a little worried about the backfire you heard and the amount of fluid that was leaking. I am hoping it was not the differential snapping.


    Anyhow, FOCF knows better than I and has had a chance to examine it.

    If it does turn out to be the differential, let me know. As I mentioned, I have just gone through this on a Boxer transmission and may be able to help with the learning/cost curve.

    Regards,

    Drew Altemara
     
  19. testarob

    testarob F1 Rookie

    May 13, 2006
    2,504
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    Rob
    Thanks for the feedback and the offer. I will post the final outcome.
     
  20. Simon^2

    Simon^2 F1 World Champ

    Oct 17, 2005
    12,313
    At Sea Level
    Glad to here it is getting resolved quickly, and all things considered, pretty good news so far. best of luck.
     
  21. testarob

    testarob F1 Rookie

    May 13, 2006
    2,504
    Debary, Florida
    Full Name:
    Rob
    OK ... here's the deal. There is a small crack (less than 1") in the housing. However, since I just had the engine out for a full service (for the 2nd time in 2 years) I am not inclinded to drop it again to replace the housing, have the gear box et al rebuilt (to the tune of about 90+hrs labor plus parts). We are going to try some JB Weld, put it all back together (with the new seal) and go from there.

    There was no indication that anything internal had pushed outward to cause the crack. There is not a problem shifing gears, no noise, no difficulties going through 1-5. I am hoping that this is just a stress crack from a 20 year old housing that can be resolved with this 'chewing gum' solution.

    Any feedback is appreciated (prayers and crossed fingers welcome too).
     
  22. Bullfighter

    Bullfighter Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jan 26, 2005
    22,352
    Indian Wells, California
    Full Name:
    Jon
    Prayers underway here. What does Ferrari chewing gum cost? ;)

    Seriously, while I'm not the ace mechanic on this site, I would keep a weather eye out for a TR parts car and see what it would cost to get an intact gearbox housing for the next major. I guess if FoCF says it's okay to leave it that way then I'd trust their opinion, but something caused the stress crack, and I've never heard of these cracks getting smaller.
     
  23. DMOORE

    DMOORE Formula 3

    Aug 23, 2005
    1,720
    San Diego
    Full Name:
    Darrell
    If the box is made of aluminum ( not sure if it is magnesium or not) I would see if you could have it tig welded. Lasts a bit longer than JB.


    Darrell.
     
  24. testarob

    testarob F1 Rookie

    May 13, 2006
    2,504
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    Rob
    My concern would be any damage behind the housing that a hot weld might cause ... thus the JB...
     
  25. J.P.Sarti

    J.P.Sarti Guest

    May 23, 2005
    2,426
    JB weld is junk IMO, it can't handle the expansion and contraction of the case nor the hot gear oil, you need an aluminum epoxy that will expand and contract with the heat cycles and resist gear oil, don't know if their is such a thing

    Try and find why it cracked, the cases are very strong and don't just crack for no reason
     

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