Do you have a GTR on order SRTMike?
Seriously you guys are really grasping at straws now. the below is just getting silly. The method didn't jive with teh traction control but Motor Trend got a clean Dyno that has been backed up with US-Spec customer cars. So why are you bringing this up? It's an allegation with no facts. Here are the facts as stated by Nissan. http://www.nissaneurope-newsbureau.com/nissanmedia/front?controller=SubRubrik&id=nissan_europe_press_room_10772091931250/news_and_events_10772871591872/presse_releases_10781508884370/corporate_10781511772180&pubId=gt_r_achieves_under______at_nurburgring_12095056384513968 Base car, stock tires. Matter of taste, Clarkson loved it. yes, there are people on web sites that do not liek the times they are seeing. There are people here with the same issue. I think it's smart to deffer to the proffessionals that have actually driven the car, and the latest Road and Track test further supports Top Gear, and everywhere else. One anomalous test from C&D where they even stated the car was underperforming. Beyond that the variance is not surprising. Different tracks, days, and testing methods. The GT-R's performance delta over the Z06 at the Nur was not nearly as big as at Buttonwillow, and the recent Road and Track tests. Not sure why you aren't focusing more on those. The loss is what it is, but customer cars are showing the same dyno as press cars so why does it matter since the dnyo debate was around ringers which we no know was wrong? What sort of statement is that? That's like saying "nthfinity has yet to admit he hunts orphans" That result (The Z06 beating the GT-R on the big end) is in line with all the tests. For Example Road and Track got the following in their first GT-R/Z06 head to hear Z06 11.7@122mph GT-R 11.8@116mph Spend some time at a drag strip, those numbers mean the GT-R kills the Z06 out of the hole, and the then gets passed by the Z06 moving 6 mph faster. The GT-R doesn't beat the Z06 in the straights, it beats it in the corners. Honestly the GT-R haters are using conspiracy theory logic at this point....(they must be lying!!!!!)
Well, I simply don't understand why all the hate on the new Nissan. You think they are cheating? ringers? 700hp? slick tires? press mules? If you guys don't have any prof, why not sit back down and wait for Japanese or US customer cars tested by magazines first and then start the finger pointing? It's absurd how people are making up conspiracy theories even though 99% of them have yet to drive the car. So we should trust the haters more so than a legit company like Nissan? Nissan consistantly lies about GT-T performance potential? If Millen agrees with nissan then he must be lying, too. You know who else is lying? Motor Trend, Edmunds, Top Gear, Autocar, Automobile Magazine, Best Motoring, Motorweek, Tanner Faust, Nissan engineers, oh heck everyone is lying except maybe Car & Driver who picked the BMW M3 over the GT-R and Porsche Turbo. I understand 7:29 is hard to believe for a 3900lbs with claimed 480hp. (480hp, funny) Let's be reasonable though, there has not been any solid prof or information indicating Nissan lied about ANYTHING. Any doubt raised thus far would be similar to one of us claiming the ZR1 can't possibly run the Nur in under 7:30. (but you see, we don't argue ZR-1's time because frankly people don't really care about the Corvette as much as the GT-R) If anyone has has solid prof other than "I can't understand how they could possible do it" then go ahead and bash Nissan and the GT-R. Until then it's just a bunch of haters picking apart a car that they will never buy anyways out of spite and.... fear?
I'm not a gtr hater by any means. Buy what most reasonable people are seeing, are numbers that are not adding up. Power to weight is EVERYTHING when it comes to performance. And those figures are not jiving. As you well know, computer controlled turbo cars are very easy to manipulate. When the customer cars hit the shores and are tested, all of the speculation will be put to rest. BTW, this also goes for the zr1's ring times as well. Factory preproduction cars are just that. Factory owned and OPERATED cars. Darrell.
^ Agreed, but do people really think the GT-R makes 480hp? Did anyone really think the R34 GT-R made only 280hp? Would you call Nissan a liar by understating the power of the GT-R? Does the BMW 335i really only make 300hp? IMO understating the hp for some sort of Japanese gentleman agreement is a far cry from the claim Nissan cheated the Ring time and provided ringer mobiles for the press.
So what is all this crap I'm reading that Nissan will void your warranty if you turn off the VDC? It is in the owners manual! So they add a function so the magazines can use it to get a great time, but if a customer uses it they void his/her warranty? "So this car can run X time if you turn off the VDC, but if you turn off the VDC we will void your warranty."
There is a Nissan dealer that is a customer of mine and we have done a significant amount of business together - the owner is a pretty good friend who stops by my office every couple months. I called him a few weeks back to ask about the GT-R... he was very excited about it. He said he has more customers than he can get cars, and is looking for MSRP+++ for the ones he has coming. I told him I am a buyer at MSRP and he told me that he will be able to get me a car "soon" but that the first few may be auctioned because he can't pass up tens of thousands of $$'s. I told him the options I want and he is going to get me a car ASAP. So, yes, I have one coming! Very excited about it!
Not the reason, the reason is that cars power/weight ratio makes more sense as to why it got that time....
ONE LAP OF AMERICA. 997 TT and Viper ACR destroyed the competition in actual road racing. They threw in a wet slalom to take the viper out of the lead. The GT-R is a great car but I would say you are foolish not to think there is substantial hype behind this.
The Viper ACR will destroy both the ZR-1 and the GT-R at the ring with equal drivers. You can quote me on that.
People like you are accepting the premise; not even asking the tough questions. It's akin to not asking Al Gore about the evidence that man made Global Warming is a farce. Some clean, some aren't. Refer to 693 hp claim, refer to trap speeds all over the map, from 111 mph to 124 mph. Unless you are running in 120 degree heat in Denver; the ET's of a turbocharged car is not going to varry that much. Comparing turbo cars to n/a cars in pressure differences is not as wide; anybody who spends time at the track knows this. Refer to Nissan's history of selling the R34 V spec on a lap that it could not repeat anywhere near it's reasonable target of 7:59. http://www.nissaneurope-newsbureau.com/nissanmedia/front?controller=SubRubrik&id=nissan_europe_press_room_10772091931250/news_and_events_10772871591872/presse_releases_10781508884370/corporate_10781511772180&pubId=gt_r_achieves_under______at_nurburgring_12095056384513968 Base car, stock tires. [/quote] 140 treadwear optional tire. Time is lower then cars that have run with a semi-slick. The weight is higher than any car in the under 7:50+ range (Pierre, one of the Bugatti test drivers, as well as the US rep have both said they never officially timed the Veyron.) How is it you cannot question Nissan? Especially considering their history. Loved the one he had on the track, not the one he drove across Japan. In any case, Clarkson's opinion is more entertainment than it is a view I'd trust. Corner-carvers isn't just "a web site" but filled with racers, and race engineers. There are more then a couple who are more successful then Millen is, who are much more educated then the journalists are, and are coincidentally, more skeptical then the journalists are. Early test in japan of a car ran the mid-high 11's @ 111 mph hitting 111 before 1320 ft. were completed. 1-lap ran mid 12's, and recent CD test, some tests 116, 121, 124, 111, 112. Take out the outliers, and there are still outliers. Statistically, it isn't a bell curve as you claim. I'm not sure what planet you are from, but Millen admited to driving the Z06 at Buttenwillow quite a bit; why would Jan Magnussen drift the Z06 around the NS to set a fast time? How do you explain running in excess of 10 mph faster down Dottinger Hoe then the previous attempt? Carrying 10 mph more into the back straight does not equate to 10 mph more on the top end. Anybody with experience on the track would know that. Not to mention, carrying 10 mph more in a high speed turn is a bit on the rediculous side. I have spent time, and thankfully, an early delivery shows the GTR isn't faster out of the hole even with a full t/c off launch. Would you say the Z06 would still be slower in the corners with tires that have 140 treadwear? History speaks volumes. No part of that is unbelievable. Semi-slick tires, high downforce, huge power, aggressive suspension, great weight distribution, low weight... even if still slightly heavier then the ZR1 is. The ZR1 is more of a GT then it is a thinly disguised race car.
You are correct... IF you are talking about drag racing. But when you throw in some turns and stopping into it, it is NOT everything. When you are talking about going fast in the track, you have to think about weight transfer, suspension, aerodynamics, brakes, corner entry speed, corner speed, corner exit speed, gear ratios, transmission, etc, and the lists goes on. Sure the weight/power ratio is part of it, but it is not the only factors that make the car fast around the track. Perfect example, is fixed up Mustang, Z28. They are fast as hell on the 1/4 mile, but Miata with right suspension setup is faster around the track. (Happens all the time at my local auto-x) I am not saying this is why GTR is fast, but just wanted to say that most people think power/weight is everything and it is not that simple matter.
one problem with your said example the Miata is a very light weight car the heavier a car is, the more resistance to changing direction there is.
Quote: "I understand 7:29 is hard to believe for a 3900lbs with claimed 480hp. (480hp, funny) Let's be reasonable though, there has not been any solid prof or information indicating Nissan lied about ANYTHING. Any doubt raised thus far would be similar to one of us claiming the ZR1 can't possibly run the Nur in under 7:30. (but you see, we don't argue ZR-1's time because frankly people don't really care about the Corvette as much as the GT-R) If anyone has has solid prof other than "I can't understand how they could possible do it" then go ahead and bash Nissan and the GT-R. Until then it's just a bunch of haters picking apart a car that they will never buy anyways out of spite and.... fear?" So 3900 pounds with 480hp, so that's 8.125 pounds per horsepower.. The new Vette ZR-1 ran 7:26 officially, it's 620 horsepower and 3350 pounds which equals 5.4 pounds per horsepower. The new Ferrari R430 Scud is 510hp and 2775 pounds which equals 5.44 pounds per horsepower. There is no way that a stock GTR is 3 seconds a lap slower than the new ZR-1 vette.. Can't happen. I am quite sure it's modified, and if Nissan can pull that, why not put the Vitaphone Maserati MC12 on the same track and the C6R Vette from FIA-GT on the track and time them as well. Power to weight is not everything, but it sure is when looking at acceleration, stopping, and cornering. A heavy car just cannot corner as well as a equally setup car with half the weight. Stopping is the same and so is acceleration. It's not possible that the new Vette has a suspension that is not as good or better than the Nissan and for sure that's true with Ferrari.. Nissan is trying to sell a car, but the one they are selling the public is not the same car they are running on the track or they are probably lying.
Australians, Japanese, and the Brits(somewhat) don't seem very upset because they've had the astonishing early generation of GTR's racing their circuits for the past 2 decades. Only us Americans can't quite grasp this car's abilities, but we'll soon see, and all this discussion will be moot. http://youtube.com/watch?v=pn_n1Jc3uzE
Why not post a scan of the manual and show it to us? Unless you prefer to blatantly make these type of statements and hope nobody will bother checking? Either that or people just don't care about the ZR-1 time on the Nurburgring. The Z06 drew much more attention than the ZR1 - because it's actually affordable. I wonder how much a ZR-1 goes for on the market? $200k+? That's nice for the Viper, but I don't see any significant hyper surrounding the Viper ACR either. Why? People don't really care about the Viper as much as the Nissan for whatever reason. You don't hear anyone pondering whether or not they should trade in their 911 for a Viper or get a ACR as a daily driver.
Well, base on your logic than either Nissan is lying about the horsepower rating or the weight of the GT-R. The GT-R doesn't make 480hp, the R34 GT-R doesn't make 280hp, as the R33. It's pretty obvious the Japanese Gentleman agreement has been altered rather than obliterated. I wouldn't be surprised if the new LF-A and NSX also claim 480hp when released. What about the driver?Nissan has a team dedicated to running the GT-R around the ring and they've been there for YEARS. Perhaps the driver of the GT-R knows the car and the track so well that he can extract extra 15 seconds from the lap time base on his ability alone. Does that change the fact that he ran the GT-R on Nurburgring under 7:30? Probably not. As far as the cornering capabilities of the GT-R, I think most publications already proved the GT-R is a superb handling car despite its weight and size. It's not possible the Z06 and F430 suspension systems are inferior to that of a Nissan? Well a lot of people still think it's impossible for the GT-R to get anything under 7:40 on the Ring. With the GT-R, seems like the impossible just may be possible...... thus the hype.
That says if you turn off the VDC and have a failure the manufacturer reserve the rights to exclude warranty work on the vehicle. (same thing with racing) Heck if you turn off the traction control on your car, go drifting around corners and snap a rod let's see the manufacturer cover that under the warranty. That's a far cry from the claim that turning off the VDC will VOID your vehicle warranty.
I actually kind of doubt it would even come close. The ACR's gear ratios didn't help the car during that R&T test at the Oval track, and with the good amount of straights on the 'Ring, those ratios might hurt it there, too.
Thanks for making my point with the Miata example. What the little Miata has going for it is lack of weight. The decent power to weight and lack of weight in general ,really helps it AROUND a track. Not just on acceleration. I have raced enough vehicles in my life to know the weight hurts, simple as that. At 3900 lbs and a claimed 480, somethings not right. Darrell.
Sorry, I forgot some can't use Google. Since the manual was posted, here is more info on the subject. Lots of soon to be unhappy GTR owners it looks like. http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/upload/99890-vdc-off-voids-warranty.html http://www.nagtroc.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=23235&pid=337622&st=0&#entry337622
On every point you've made, we've seen the data doesnt' support you and that the known facts are in opposition to your supposition. So, rather than address all the misinformation, how about we just look at one point critically. This is from 5th Gear's review (early in the year pre-7:29 run) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lPZT6BfiIg Jason Plato is raving about the car, but then says after 5 minutes of praise, at 4:56 "...where it lets itself down is on the longer medium speed to fast corners where it just wants to understeer too much, and you just can't get after it...come on you $&@$!. This car I think will be a more rewarding car to drive on the road because of the way the diff is set up instead of the track. But you know the upshot is you can pick faults in anything and I suppose that's our job to do. but this is a great piece of metal this! it's fantastic fun, its great value for money. We like it. We like it a lot!" Also, for the record, in the 5th gear video, Jason is driving a premium model equipped with Bridgestone tires, rather than the base model which is equipped with the more track focused Dunlop tire (the tire Nissan states was used on the 7:29 run). Driver's have stated that the Dunlop is worth 1-2 seconds per lap on a two minute circuit. So your statement was blatantly false. No point in going any further in this discussion if untruthful statements are being presented.
