TOOL: LATHE / MILL / DRILL recommendation

Are you absolutely sure you dont have room for something bigger? The 3-in-1 machines look like they are the best of both worlds, but they tend to be the worst of both.

I would strongly suggest you go for a seperate lathe and milling machine. The mill will do everything a drill press will do, so with a lathe you'd have all you need.

I would recommend Grizzly. Their 10x20 lathe has been getting very good reviews and is $950. They also have an 11x26" machine for around $1300 or so. Here's the lathes

http://www.grizzly.com/products/G0602
http://www.grizzly.com/products/G9972Z


Then I'd get a seperate mill, something like

http://www.grizzly.com/products/G0619

The round column machines can be a PITA because they dont have a lot of Z-axis stroke, and if you swap out your tools, you will frequently need to adjust the head height. on a round column, this means you lose your X/Y position but on a square column, this does not happen.

I know the temptation is strong to get an all-in-one but my experience running them is that they just do not do what you need. The table is not nearly as sturdy as it is on a real mill, so the part doesn't cut as accurately. There are always compromises in that type of machine, so IMO its better to get them seperate.

If you got the above lathe and mill, it would run you less than $2500 delivered. If you really were into spending $4k, then I would try to decide if you will be making the mill or the lathe work harder, and upsize whatever one will be the work mule. Grizzlys G9249 is a pretty serious machine that will do a lot of work

http://www.grizzly.com/products/G9249

And the G3101 is a pretty serious home mill

http://www.grizzly.com/products/G3103

I dont work for Grizzly, just have one of their mills and lathe at the shop for manual work. They are the same stuff that Enco/Harbor Freight/Jet sell but the Grizzly is IMO a better overall finsihed product (paint is nice) and Grizzlys service in case of problems is top notch.

The problems with the smaller machines and especially the 3-in-1's is that they make you work a lot harder to get good results. I have a 60hp Okuma CNC lathe at work. I can take gigantic cuts on the thing and it doesn't even flinch. For YEARS I had used an old Bridgeport that would cut great and a Leblond lathe from the 70's or so that was super accurate and easy to use. When I started using a little 7x12 lathe, it seemed so hard to get the feeds/speeds right. I was always messing with my setup and tooling to get a good finish, and threading was always hit or miss. I used to think I was doing something wrong. But as I moved up to subsequently bigger machines, everything just worked so much better. Surface finishes improved a LOT, dimensional accuracy shot way up, speed went up and number of scrapped parts dropped way down. Some of my parts are 1/2" round or 2" round and I still cut them on that big Okuma that can cut 24" diameters. But I can seriously blast them out on it quickly and never worry if I am taxing the machine too much.

You will never regret having sprung for the bigger machine but you will often regret having too small a machine.

My .02

 

Much better plan! You will be much much happier. If you can spare the extra money, a DRO a the mill is a god send. grizzly has those too at the best price I've found.

The only other thing is tooling. On the lathe, 3 jaw chucks do not run true unless you buy a $2000 indictable version...a 4 jaw chuck can always be trued, but is a bit slow to indicate in if you aren't in practice. A collet set is the god send on a lathe for smaller stuff, very fast and very accurate.

Get a good vise for the mill is pretty important, don't buy the cheapest one they make.

Your going to need dial indicators too if you don't have them already, I like a test indicator with a quill clamp on the mill. On the lathe you need to, one on a GOOD mag base, preferably a fingered form fit type, and one on a might-mag for carriage position

 

yes, so can the mill. Just wipe off as much oil as you can to keep the saw dust from sticking and turn up the rpm.

 

Are you dead set on buying new?

If you dont mind a used machine, then I would look at a used Bridgeport knee mill over that Grizzly. The Grizzly is a good machine, no doubt, but that machine you linked to is a lighter duty machine than an 80's Bridgeport knee mill. People will ask $4-8k for Bridgeports, but just laugh at them... if you look around you can have your pick of series 1 machines for probably $1000-1500. They just are not worth much. I was at an aerospace company a while back that I used to work with, when I got there the maintenance guy asked if I wanted any Bridgeports. They were "out of spec" and he was cutting them into pieces with an oxy torch so they would fit in the dumpster. They would hold 2 thou over 12 inches which ain't good enough for aero work, but is MORE than fine for the home shop. I've seen lots of B-ports go for $1k or less at auction, so if you dont mind trolling some of the machinery shops you should be able to find one without much trouble. Find a shop with a few and offer the guy a grand cash and you'll take it away and you should be able to get one.

But if you are set on buying new, that Grizzly is not a bad machine at all. I had the drawbar bolt go out on mine. Its a roll pin that holds the hex head on that sheared. I called Grizzly and they immediately sent me a new one and apologized. Didnt even ask for the old one back. Dont try that with Enco or Harbor Freigth

On the lathe, again if you have the room you will fall in love with an old Leblonde but it will be heavy and a pita to move. If you order from Grizzly, the truck shows up at your house and you get liftgate service and you are done.

If you are doing car parts I am guessing you're gonna work a lot in aluminum and I think almost any of the machines talked about would be good. A B-port knee mill will blast through steel like butter whereas smaller machines will have more flex and you cant take as heavy a cut. Another thing to think about is coolant - if you can put guards on the machine with a small flood coolant setup, you will get much longer tool life an MUCH better surface finish.

 

Yeah dont forget tooling

I agree on the vise but dont go too nuts. I have Kurt tombstone and double-lok setups and they are a few grand each. No point putting something like that on a $1500 mill. But a used Kurt angle-lock would be nice but probably overkill too - even an eBay "machinists vise" for $100 would be fine. Those mills are probably going to have an R8 spindle taper, so be sure you get a set of R8 collet holders (cheap to buy) and a drill chuck (cheap to buy). I wouldnt go too nuts on the measuring tools. I do a lot of stuff and I have a mic I hardly ever use, a dial indicator I hardly ever use, and a $50 eBay digital caliper I use all the time. These machines use ACME screws instead of ballscrews so they have a fair amount of backlash. Thats not a problem but you need to remember to measure or better yet, get a DRO. I bet you could get a DRO setup for between $200 and $500 and that would be a great investment on the mill.

You're not doing production (I dont think) so I'd personally skip the collets on the lathe and just use the 3 and 4 jaw chucks. The 3-jaw isnt perfect but as soon as you take your skim cut the part will be true If you are reworking stuff, you are always gonna use the 4-jaw anyway and that will take time to get it set up but thats life

I would recommend indexable tooling on the lathe... McMaster will have all the mill tooling you would ever want.

 

Check www.garagejournal.com and other machining forums.

There are a HUGE market out there with DIY'ers and these import machines. Everything from custom tooling and internal gearing, to full blown 4 axis DIY cnc kits.

 

the angle-lock knock-offs are about $100 too and pretty good, for $120 you get it with a swivel base which is nice to have, but not really critical...that's what I have at home.

I lived without collets for a long time....but it didn't make me happy. simple jobs like shortening a bolt turn into a projects. I got a 5C chuck nose on ebay for $150 and I just love it. I would trade an aloris-type tool post (which I also love) for the collets any day.

MSC, enco, harbor frieght are quite a bit cheaper than mcmaster for tooling generally. Watch the sales/specails, all the common stuff turns up at good prices pretty often.

 

A b-port is definitely a better machine, but finding one at a good price that isn't worn right out in hard....I looked at junk for about a year then bought an almost new (like 10 or 12 hours of use in a home wood shop) Chinese copy for $1200.

 

If he will be working on similar sized parts, a 5C collet set is a lifesaver I figured he may be doing things like machining brackets for things and turning one-offs?

But you got a smokin' deal on that collet holder - 150?? Damn! I am envious!

 

If you had known me then and were willing to drive to Boston you could have had 10 of them for free

The thing about Bridgeports is they are like 55-gallon drums and wooden pallets. Some people accumulate them and for those people, they have little value and are almost a PITA to get rid of. But other people really need them and pay for them. The trick is to find a mid size to large company who has 5 or 10 of them, and offer them some amount to get rid of one. Many places need the room, or wouldn't mind getting rid of one of them. You gotta know how to check the machine but I'm surprised how many guys want a perfect machine (i.e. "oh no there is some tool oops-es on the table!"). Meh... depends what you're cutting. Then again I've seen guys "score" rusted out junk machines that have value only in scrap and spend 3x its value fixing it up

What sort of parts do you make? Just hobby stuff? eBay is a great resource for parts and tooling - I just spent $400 today on carbide inserts and I think for my money I got maybe 20 inserts total. They didnt have what I needed on eBay. But I did pick up a 100 pack of WNMG 432 inserts for something like $50. And they were brand new ISCAR brand! Just amazing. I heard from some other machine guys in the biz park that sometimes guys who work at shops steal them and resell on eBay - they are small and easy to take and most shops dont inventory them or track their use/disappearance. I cant see how else someone is selling $18/ea inserts for $0.50/ea!

 

There still there, a couple bucks more now - $165, buy it now.
http://cgi.ebay.com/5-5C-COLLET-CHUCK-PINION-BORING-GRINDING-MILLING-LATHE_W0QQitemZ330165311818QQihZ014QQcategoryZ25292QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

There you go........

Just hobby stuff, but pretty cool hobby stuff. Last year it was a supercharger set-up and custom intake with a built in intercooler for my QV. This week I'm finishing the install of a Kawi 6 speed trans in my H-D XR race bike....I did most of the work years ago but but side tracked, I'm cutting the crank drive gear now, after that fitting something to work the clutch and it's done and ready for ebay to pay for the next project. Next month I should be ready to start my new project, a 400i block fitted with TR heads fitted with 12 throttlebodies, adapted to a 308 trans and stuffed into my QV in place of the blower motor.
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Yeow - that is some cool stuff you are working on!

Thanks for the eBay link to the collet chuck - I would need a bigger one I am usually working with 2.5" stock for one of our big parts, and 1.75" for another. The lathe has a 3" through bore so I can just load in 4' sections and use a bar puller to somewhat automate it. Being a lazy SOB I was looking for something hydraulic (plus I need that to use the bar puller). That collet chuck may work well on my little lathe though... hmmm... thanks for the tip!

For metal, check out www.onlinemetalsupply.com. THey have a lot of stuff and prices are excellent. I pay $3.85 locally for aluminum, that site is maybe 80% less.

 

Is the indictable version sold by Mclaren?

 

I have a good condition Knee-Mill (Manual-Taiwan) selling for $2500 CD.

 

Ray,

I agree with SRT Mike(excellent summary, by the way). I have owned Grizzly machines (woodworking) in the past and they all strong performers.

The multi purpose machines are a waste of money. The frustration isnt worth it, especially with a lathe where you need accuracy.