Today's WSJ FF article

I don't understand the appeal of frequenting a part of the forum that you are not a fan of. I really don't like the Mondial or 400/412, so guess what? I don't go to those sections because I have no interest and I'm sure the appreciators/owners don't want to hear me talk about how much I don't like their cars.

 

So is repeatedly saying how great the design is. Especially when it's so...controversial. I don't happen to be a fan of the California, either, but people can spend their $ how they wish. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. That said, the old saying, "don't pee on me and tell me it's raining" applies.

And, I agree that Pininfarina's designs usually don't come across well in the photos and take time to grow in acceptance. Maybe I'll change my opinion on the Cali and the FF. Or maybe not. But, repeatedly cheerleading it is equally tedious and won't make that happen any faster. If anything, it makes me question the taste credential of those who are cheerleading it.

CW

 

Sure. That's fine. So, where should people express their dis-interest in the model? Again, I'm sure SpA (or anyone else, for that matter) doesn't care how I feel about the FF or the Cali, as they're selling everything they can build, and it's just my opinion. However, when the dealer calls me asking me to buy something...ANYTHING...to help the move inventory, and I don't like what they have, it's relevant feedback.

CW

 

CW- Cheerleading is generally positive and what we do a lot of in FChat admiring each other's cars. Like Dave said, if one did not like the FF or the California, a sane man would stay out of those forums. A troll would not.

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

Your opinion...

Just saying that if everything has to be positive, then there's discrimination going on. And, just because someone's negative, they get a troll label affixed.

Just standing up for everyone's right not to like it, though. And to say it. Frankly, I don't care what people buy or don't buy. That's their decision. I do, however, lament SpA's questionable design direction. I steadily lose more and more interest in them. I find that sad. Ferrari used to produce some of the most beautiful designs. Today, I find some of them downright unattractive. They'll still be Ferraris and will still perform at super high levels, but they just don't turn me on.

CW

 

+7 x3

 

Good chime in...

CW

 

CW, you still don't get it ...

you are not labeled a troll because of a negative opinion on something as subjective as style.

What makes a troll is a continuing, unending pattern of the same old negative opinion, typically with nothing positive or complimentary to offer in other areas (like engineering). This is a Ferrari board, so yes ... by and large, most people around here are going to be generally positive about the marque (if you interpret that last comment as meaning there's no room for negative opinions or experiences, then you still don't get the point).

fwiw I'm not trying to label you as a troll, by the way

 

I hear you, and I'm not taking this personally. This is actually a useful discussion that really isn't about design. It's about Internet decorum.

However, also understand that the sword goes both ways. Drowning a naysayer out and/or labeling them a troll because they won't join the fanfest bandwagon is a form of censorship.

Or, perhaps you're familiar with the phrase, "Thou doth protest too much"? Repeated positive comments are a form of over-compensation indicating exactly the opposite.

The fact is that taste is subjective, and there will always be people who don't like it. Accept that and move on. It's not like someone is crying "Fire" in a crowded theater. If one doesn't like the opinion rendered, they're free to ignore it. And the poster, for that matter, too. There's probably a line somewhere that when crossed goes from annoying to badgering, and that's probably the point at which a mod should step in. But, when to do so is also a tough decision. Doing so is definitely censorship, and mods shouldn't take that step lightly. However, bullying someone into submission or name-calling probably does nothing more than raise the animosity level.

Regardless, I've said my peace on the matter. Carry on, all...

CW

 

no arguments i've been a moderator on an internet message board before, it's no simple task ...

you, sir, are a gentleman

 

I must agree

 

you, on the other hand, not so much ...


LOL


just playin'

 

Hey now

 

A similar argument could be made about all the endless fanning from people who like the design. Just repeating that the car is gorgeous over and over again isn't really helping the discussion either and could be construed as trolling.

Indeed. Regardless of whether the same thing is criticism or praise.

LOL

Like any would-be buyer gives a hoot what a mod on FChat said about the car. While flattering, you're giving me way too much clout.

What matters more is however the negative feedback the car is getting in general from the press and from blogs overall. That actually might dissuade a would-be buyer from getting the car. Cause who wants to be laughed at when getting out of the car because everybody within the vicinity thinks the guy has more $ than taste.

 

i respectfully disagree. In my humble view, there's an "expectation" or "bias" (in the statistical sense) that opinions about Ferrari will tend to be positive, on a Ferrari board. To support my point, consider two possible motivations for joining F-chat (yes, there are certainly others) : person A joins to praise the marque, maybe a real owner or wishful owner. Person B joins only to bash the marque. Which of these two (somewhat extreme, not exclusive of other reasons to join) would be more welcomed by the community? Would they both be considered "trolls", of different flavors? Know what i mean?

EDIT : further, when one gives negative criticism about something subjective like style, i think it's only respectful (and common decency, really) to praise other areas (like clever 4WD engineering). May just be mothing more than manners, but it helps avoid the "troll" label !!

Is the Ferrari FF really getting "negative feedback ... in general from the press"?

 

That's my impression. They might praise it for its technology as in the WSJ article, but I think the majority of reviews are negative on its looks.

A toiletbrush on wheels and a front like a character from Pokemon isn't really what you'd like to read about your 300k (?) investment.

 

I think it's perfectly fine that people express their opinion whether positive or negative on these forums. Every time a new picture will surface, people will express their opinion, that's how it goes until the new car becomes part of the scenery. And if people dont appreciate that someone somewhere dislike a certain car they happen to like, they just need to get over themselves. I doubt any potential buyer will refrain from spending $350k based on a few forum posts. If they do, they were buying the car for the wrong reasons.

Most people who express a negative opinion on these new Ferraris are Ferrari enthusiasts, it's not like they are doing it just to annoy. I know i have expressed my dislike for the FF several time because i love Ferrari and i am a little disappointed by how it looks. Now i will wait to see one in person, hoping that it will look better and that i will change my mind. It didnt happen with the California which i still find very unattractive but the FF at least has a lot of charisma..and i like that.

 

+1

And just for the record: Andrew owns a Ferrari. As do I.

 

yeah but your Ferrari is butt-ugly !



LOL just kiddin'

couldn't resist, i'm in a silly mood

 

I think it is gorgeous so I don't really care what others think.

Unless I'm at a concours

 

your Ferrari IS gorgeous

 

OBTW, I think the first and best use of the "FF" moniker would be from land of jolly old. A hand-built coach from the stable of Jensen. Definitely an acquired taste. As for the new FF? I have no opinion, after all my post count is microscopic and in the grander scheme of things, clearly it means I know nothing.
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Boy I will be glad when the next Ferrari comes out so we can move on. Reminds me of the old sign in the Bounty bar and grill on 6 th street in LA years ago that said...."If you can't say something nice about someone, knock em".

Thing is, right now no one actually owns one of these things so putdowns on the car are pretty much hypothetical in nature. Now when FChatters start forking over 350k plus and driving them home these kinds of comments and jokes are going to cause some real pain and it could get personal.

 

By the way "the hurt feelings report form " is a classic.

 

Last comment today....can someone tell me why I have a green ball following my user name?