To Paddle Shift or Not To Paddle Shift, that is the question…. | FerrariChat

To Paddle Shift or Not To Paddle Shift, that is the question….

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by scottevestceo, Jan 20, 2024.

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  1. scottevestceo

    scottevestceo Karting

    Apr 16, 2023
    170
    Full Name:
    Scott Jordan
    I was told (by lots of people) that you should NOT use the automatic transmission in your modern (dual clutch) Ferrari, but rather you must use your paddle shifters. Someone insisted it was not only more fun to paddle shift, it was bad for your transmission to allow your car to shift for you. That makes no sense whatsoever.

    Here’s my thinking: Given how complicated these cars are and how sophisticated their computers are how they control pretty much everything better and faster than any driver could do so, why wouldn’t it make more sense to allow your Ferrari to shift for you? I have been experimenting with the auto transmission for awhile now, and here are some of my thoughts.
    • When decelerating under heavy braking, I find using auto mode much better, especially on a track as the computer will downshift much more aggressively than I would do so using paddle shifters, often shifting down 2 or even 3 gears quickly, when i would have only downshifted 1 or 2 gears.
    • Learning how to control the gears via the accelerator and brakes is a skill and takes time to learn how the car will respond based upon the pressure and speed you apply to the brake and accelerator. It is not intuitive at first, but after time, you discover how to operate it, and it is very fun once you figure it out.
    • I have driven a Porsche with a PDK auto and it seems much quicker and seems to almost read your mind changing gears as quickly as you think of it. This leads me to believe that Ferrari is not nearly as sophisticated as Porsche’s auto transmission, but this doesn’t make sense to me. Why would Ferrari invest so much money in engineering its cars and computers related thereto, but ignores the automatic.
    • If you don’t leave it in auto mode, you are not allowing your car to perform as Ferrari intended, which is especially true under hard braking. Maybe I am wrong about this?
    • I do find that under hard acceleration, I am sometimes disappointed that it will not kick down to the lowest gear possible for maximum acceleration always, but wonder if I am simply not depressing the accelerator properly.
    • I have asked friends with several Ferrari’s and other super cars, and they all NEVER use the auto transmission, even on the track. When I tracked my car, I found auto was best, knowing that I can always override the auto using the paddle shifters.
    I intend to create a video on this topic to show this further. Your thoughts are appreciated.

    Thanks from Sun Valley, Idaho, daily driving my 2017 GTC4Lusso even in the snow.

    Scott
     
  2. scottevestceo

    scottevestceo Karting

    Apr 16, 2023
    170
    Full Name:
    Scott Jordan
    Here’s what ChatGBT says:
    Your observations about using the automatic transmission in a modern Ferrari like the 2017 GTC4Lusso are insightful and raise interesting points about the balance between driver control and advanced automotive technology. Here are some thoughts to consider:

    1. **Transmission Design and Purpose**: High-performance cars like Ferraris are often designed with both enthusiast and technological excellence in mind. The automatic transmission in these vehicles, especially with dual-clutch systems, is engineered to provide optimal performance and efficiency. This technology is often more capable of making split-second decisions for gear shifts than the average driver, especially under varying driving conditions.

    2. **Paddle Shifters vs. Automatic Mode**: The choice between using paddle shifters and automatic mode often comes down to personal preference and driving context. Paddle shifters offer a more engaging and controlled driving experience, which many enthusiasts prefer. However, in certain situations like heavy braking or complex track maneuvers, the automatic mode's precise and rapid gear changes can be advantageous, as you've observed.

    3. **Comparison with Other Brands**: The feeling that a Porsche PDK transmission is more intuitive or responsive than a Ferrari's may be subjective and based on individual driving styles or specific car models. Each brand has its unique approach to transmission technology, and comparisons might not always be straightforward.

    4. **Performance Under Different Conditions**: It's important to remember that these high-performance cars are tuned for a wide range of driving conditions. The automatic transmission's response under hard acceleration may be programmed to balance between optimal performance and engine protection.

    5. **Expert and User Opinions**: While many enthusiasts and professionals might prefer manual control over transmissions, this doesn't necessarily mean that automatic modes are inferior. It reflects a preference for a more 'hands-on' driving experience.

    6. **Your Experiences on the Track**: Your experiences with using automatic mode on the track provide valuable insight. The fact that you found it effective, especially with the option to override with paddle shifters, suggests that the automatic mode can perform exceptionally well under demanding conditions.

    7. **Ferrari's Intended Performance**: Manufacturers design their vehicles to perform excellently in both automatic and manual modes. The idea that not using automatic mode might be going against Ferrari's intended performance could be a matter of perspective. These cars are designed to cater to a range of drivers, from those who prefer complete control to those who rely on the car's advanced systems.

    In summary, whether to use paddle shifters or the automatic transmission in a Ferrari largely depends on the driver's preference, the driving context, and the specific characteristics of the car model. Both modes have their advantages, and the choice often reflects a driver's desire for engagement versus reliance on the car's advanced technological capabilities. Your video on this topic would be a valuable contribution, showcasing real-world experiences and insights.
     
    Wayne Forza likes this.
  3. scottevestceo

    scottevestceo Karting

    Apr 16, 2023
    170
    Full Name:
    Scott Jordan
    Here’s what Bard says:


    Modern automatics are incredibly sophisticated. As you mentioned, the computers controlling them can react much faster than any human driver. They can also take into account a wider range of factors, such as engine temperature, road conditions, and even the driver's intentions. In most cases, the automatic transmission will be quicker and smoother than paddle shifting, especially under hard braking or acceleration.

    Ferrari's automatics are no slouch. While Porsche's PDK is often lauded as the best in the business, Ferrari's automatics are no slouches either. The 7-speed dual-clutch transmission in your GTC4Lusso is incredibly fast and responsive. It's designed to work seamlessly with the engine and other systems to provide optimal performance.

    Using the automatic doesn't mean you're not driving the car as Ferrari intended. The engineers who designed your car spent countless hours developing and tuning the automatic transmission. They intended for it to be a viable option for driving, not just a fallback for those who can't handle paddle shifters.

    Paddle shifters can be fun, but they're not always necessary. There's no denying that paddle shifting can be a lot of fun. It gives you a sense of control and engagement that you don't get with an automatic. However, it's also more work and requires practice to do well. In many situations, the automatic will do a just as good or even better job.

    Ultimately, the choice is yours. There's no right or wrong answer to the paddle shift vs. automatic debate. It comes down to personal preference. If you enjoy using the paddle shifters, then by all means go for it. But don't feel like you're somehow "not driving the car properly" if you use the automatic.

    Here are some additional things to consider:

    • Your driving experience. If you're a seasoned track driver, you may be able to wring out a bit more performance from the car by using paddle shifters. However, if you're a casual driver, the automatic will likely be just as fast and more enjoyable.
    • The driving conditions. In stop-and-go traffic, the automatic will be much more convenient than paddle shifting. On the other hand, if you're on a twisty back road, you might enjoy the added control of paddle shifters.
    • Your own preferences. Do you enjoy the feeling of being in control of the car's gears? Or do you prefer to focus on the road and let the car do the work?
    Ultimately, the best way to decide is to experiment and see what you like best. There's no shame in using the automatic, and it might just surprise you with how good it is.
     
    Wayne Forza likes this.
  4. George Vosburgh

    George Vosburgh F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    All I would add to this is that the Automatic mode on my '08 599 is terrible. It's always two gears in front of where I want the engine. I never ever use it. It reminds me of my mom's 1960 Cadillac.
    On the other hand, the paddle shift is an absolute joy to use. Very responsive in sport and super fast in race.
     
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  5. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Eight Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 28, 2003
    85,535
    Texas!
    Porsche's PDK transmission works best in the auto mode. It can do things you can't. For example, you're doing 70 in 7th gear on a two-lane highway, when you step on it to pass. The car immediately drops to 3rd and then starts upshifting faster than you can think. It is unbelievable.

    I haven't had as much experience driving a Ferrari DCT. However, I don't use the paddles. Computers are smarter and faster than me.
     
  6. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Eight Time F1 World Champ
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    Apr 28, 2003
    85,535
    Texas!
    BTW, the first time I took a Porsche PDK to the track, I was laughing the whole time. Those German engineers may be anal, but they are good.
     
  7. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Eight Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 28, 2003
    85,535
    Texas!
    F1 is a different breed of cat. There is no comparison to a DCT.
     
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  8. energy88

    energy88 Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 21, 2012
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    West of Fredericksburg, VA
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    John
    Is there any provision in the electronics (Porsche, Ferrari, etc.) that allows "learning" over time when the paddle shifters are actually used by a driver?
     
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  9. Bullfighter

    Bullfighter Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jan 26, 2005
    22,571
    Gates Mills, Ohio
    Full Name:
    Jon
    This.

    The PDK is a lot smarter than an old school automatic.


    Sent from my iPad using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
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  10. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 13, 2009
    16,436
    Charleston, SC
    Full Name:
    Curt
    PDK is the future. Pure and simple. Our macan is perfect with its PDK. The F1 is an imperfect evolutionary step that burn through clutches in 30k miles.
     
  11. Dewinator

    Dewinator F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 22, 2017
    7,315
    WA
    My 911 would still do a kickdown if you push slightly past full throttle it would still downshift to the lowest possible gear even in manual.

    I sold the car; DCTs are super boring.
     
  12. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Eight Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 28, 2003
    85,535
    Texas!
    I get it. I really do. But, but, take it to the track...
     
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  13. Dewinator

    Dewinator F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 22, 2017
    7,315
    WA
    I did, and it was fun. But regular diving is super boring. Curvy roads with bikes and idiot drivers and all the other things are only fun in a safe way with a manual. If you go fast enough to take advantage of the pdk, it's dangerous.
     
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  14. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Eight Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 28, 2003
    85,535
    Texas!
    We're on the same page.
     
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  15. NGooding

    NGooding Formula 3
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    Apr 5, 2021
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    Nate
    I'm with you. Had a PDK Boxster loaner once. It downshifted for me when I stepped on it in manual mode. That was it for me. Will never consider a car with a PDK.

    Sadly, I feel similarly disinterested in the Porsche manual transmission these days because of the auto-blip. Takes a lot of the fun out of driving a manual for me. I know you can disable it, but at least the last time I drove one, that required taking the car out of sport mode. That, in turn, made the throttle response lousy, so it was impossible to get that satisfying, crisp blip on your own. Again, kind of ruined the experience for me.

    I know these things don't bother everyone. But it turned me off, which was a bummer.
     
  16. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Eight Time F1 World Champ
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    Apr 28, 2003
    85,535
    Texas!
    Dinosaur.
     
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  17. NGooding

    NGooding Formula 3
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    Apr 5, 2021
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    Two reasons I never drive in automatic mode:
    1. Most importantly: it's less fun (for me). Even if the software will make better decisions, I don't care. I like driving! I want to be as involved in the operation of the machine as possible and therefore want to delegate as little to the computers as I can (unless, perhaps, it's a matter of safety). If Ferrari would offer me control of the clutch again, I'd take that too.
    2. Unless you're approaching full throttle (which I can rarely do on the road for more than a few seconds at a time), I find the Lusso upshifts far earlier than I'd like, even in sport mode. I'd guess that this is in the interest of fuel economy. Whatever the reason, I prefer to hear the the engine rev a bit more, even if I don't have the space to really get into the throttle.
    That doesn't mean the software for automatic mode isn't fantastic. It's just not for me.
     
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  18. scottevestceo

    scottevestceo Karting

    Apr 16, 2023
    170
    Full Name:
    Scott Jordan
    I thought that was the case too but if you learn how to operate the accelerator, I find that you can get the revs up higher and longer than you think even in. It takes a skill and learning now
     
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  19. Cigarzman

    Cigarzman F1 Veteran
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    I only use my paddles. Good bad or indifferent. I don’t care. It’s a Ferrari for crying out loud.
     
  20. 05F430F1

    05F430F1 F1 Rookie
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    Oct 22, 2005
    3,600
    Fort Lauderdale, Florida
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    Todd
    of course, ONLY paddles.. in that stupid auto mode, the friggn thing is into 7th gear by 22 miles per hour... ridiculousness.
     
  21. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 1, 2013
    16,353
    Menlo Park, CA
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    Paul Chua
    Auto mode reminds me of teaching a teenager how to drive stick.
     
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  22. Cigarzman

    Cigarzman F1 Veteran
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

  23. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 1, 2013
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    Paul Chua
    I've grown fond of every transmission type, depending on the circumstance.

    For speed on the road, DCT
    For maximum tactility, manual
    For hardcore racing, sequential

    A time and a place, as they say.
     
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  24. ginoBBi512

    ginoBBi512 F1 Rookie
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    Oct 9, 2016
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    GINO RUGGIERO
    Look its really simple, if you have a Ferrari with a manual box, keep it so you can always enjoy analog driving. Then buy yourself something with paddles. If you dont already , you can train yourself to left foot brake with a paddle shifted sports car . By left foot braking you become a much smoother and faster driver, its that simple.

    If you dont already have a manual box, then I think the only real option in buying a newer sports car with a manual, is if you buy a Porsche. Im not sure if you can buy a WRX with a manual box, but if you could it would be an option. As far as paddles go, the options are quite abound .

    I have completely changed my mind with regards to paddle shifting. Maybe its due to my karting over the last almost 2 years. My next sports car, if I decide to buy one will be with paddles. I will never sell my 328, so theres that.

    G
     
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  25. spirot

    spirot F1 World Champ

    Dec 12, 2005
    14,941
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    Tom Spiro
    Ive left foot braked on the Track in my 599 and it works ok, its not as nimble as a kart... I like the dead pedal to brace myself vs. using it for the brakes. I'm a right foot guy. in the 599 - I rarely use the auto mode, as its too jerky... and i think it slips the clutch more...
     

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