Time-sert came out! What next?

I would just put it back in, it will work fine. If next time the insert stays in, a tiny bit of anti-sieze would be appropriate.

 

I'd say "yes", and a permanent one -- like the red Loctite 271.

Is your actual plug a tapered NPT thread with no sealing shoulder (it doesn't look "stock" to me)? If so, I think you'd be better off with a non-hardening sealer like Loctite PST (that will also act as a quasi-anti-seize) rather than a more classic anti-seize. Can be a little bit of a hassle cleaning up the female threads at each replacement, but the advantage is that you don't have to torque the plug so much to get a good seal (i.e., the Loctite PST acts as the seal rather than the metal-to-metal deformation).

 

put the cert in with JB Weld or as someone else said, red thread lock. Anti-sieze on the plug part.

Ray

 

I concur with the Loctite. However, the reason it came out in the first place is no Loctite was used. Make sure the threads are super-clean, otherwise the Loctite won't work anyway.

 

One problem is that the curing "specs" for an anerobic threadlocker tend to focus on the breaking strength vs curing time, rather than the "sealability" vs curing time. This link shows the Technical Data Sheet for that particular Permatex product:

http://www.devcon.com/techinfo/HI%20STRENGTH%20THRDLOCKER%20RED%20GEL.pdf#search='permatex%20high%20strength%20threadlocker%20red%20gel'

I'd wait at least 10 hours, but the 24 would be better if you are not pressed for time.

Are you going to confirm that you can get the plug out (with the insert staying in place) before adding oil? (And is that plug something different?)

 

Simply replace your drain plug with one of these spring loaded valves & never worry about unscrewing it again. Had one on a previous P-car 928 and it made for REALLY quick, no tool oil changes.

http://www.fumotovalve.com/

 

I have no experience with the gel products but either the red high strength or the green very high strength Loctite will put that insert in to stay. The trick is to have all the oil off or it will just not work. I am not sure how you are going to do that with the pan on the car. Oil will continue to drip out of it for days, or longer.

To compound your problems you have a pipe plug with tapered threads in it. The only to get those to seal is to make it tighter than it really should be for a drain plug. Then the insert wants to come with it. A Helicoil and a shouldered plug would have been a better option but it is too late for that now.

 

Locktite works better if the surfaces are very clean; brake parts cleaner or lacquer thinner work good and heat makes it set-up quickly. If you heat the fitting-up to 200 or so degrees it will set-up almost instantly. That may be too hot for an oil pan, but It would be good to wave a heat gun or torch across it for a couple of minutes. If you use a torch, make sure there are no fuel leaks and that you have a water hose and fire extinguisher handy. When the Locktite kicks, it will turn from transparent to opaque.

Mark

 

Someone lost the plug on the 308 I bought, and put in a rubber expansion plug, the kind with a bolt you tighten? I didnt even have to loosen it, just pulled it down with a pair of pliers and it popped right out (HACKS!). They must have lost the plug, as the threads were fine, so I thought I could use the plug off the other car, but they are different size. Either Ferrari changed plug sizes midyear, or one of these was altered/repaired. Perhaps the larger one was originally a smaller one that stripped out and someone just tapped a bigger hole for a larger plug? So there is a simple option, just tap it for a larger plug? It really does not need to be metric either.

 

Sorry to hear that you are between a rock and a hard place. It's not unheard of to use a tapered pipe thread plug for a fluid service port, but the shallow taper makes them almost self-locking (esp. same material on same material as it appears that you have).

Maybe the best that you can do is to determine the OD thread size of your present arrangement (major diameter x thread pitch) so that you can look for a future possible solution and determine a plan for your next change. My guess would be that the OD thread would be from the "inch" family (since the ID thread is NPT) rather than metric, but calculate both and see who's closer to "even" numbers/fractions.

I don't think that you'd have a problem temporarily reusing the (stuck) Insert+Plug combination (if you used a little non-hardening sealer where appropriate), but you'd be back to the situation of having the Aluminum casting material of the pan as the female service threads, and the past has shown this is trouble long-term.

 

I think that you're on the right track here (and anything's possible), but, if the thread pitches are/were the same on the two holes, I'd guess it was more likely that there was a Helicoil (wire) insert present that has been damaged/lost from the pan with the now larger hole -- just a thought...

What was your solution -- did you fit a different/custom plug+thread?

 

Go to mcmaster-carr (pg 3220) and read through the loctites. Some are (largely) oil resistant. ie, there are dozens of loctites (not just blue, red, green - there are half a dozen of each color). I would go with liquid over gel. 271 is a red and holds like all hell, but something like 262 might be better (but I haven't used it so not sure).

If you jack one end of the car up a bit you might get the drips to slow more than when it's level (and the drain hole is basically the low spot). ie, if you can limit the drips (oil wetness) to one side of the stripped threads, the threadlocker will be given a clean surface to set in on the uphill side.

You might want to use a time-sert tool to insert the threads though to ensure the plug doesn't get stuck in with the threadlocker. or at least be careful not to get it on the plug-sert threads.

 

Art,

Are you sure you were dealing with the motor oil plug ? the QV plug is 12mm hex and the greabox sump plug is a slightly smaller hex plug...these are easily confused ( not a mistake you are likely to make but when someone just hands you a 308 "oil drain plug" it could be either!

 

I cant actually measure them both right now to compare them cuz the drivers full of oil, I'll try to remember to do that at the next oil change, but ya'll can trust me they are both oil drain plugs. I have the one motor apart and stored here in the basement. The pan off the driver is currently attached to my other gearbox, and the other pan is now on the driver. The hole from old pan measures 23 MM, and has very good threads, but thats the one that had the rubber plug. Like I say, I am not sure of the other ones size, but it was significantly smaller IIRC.

 

A time-sert when installed properly is locked into place using a special tool that comes with the time-sert kit. It kind of like a tap that is screwed all the way throuth the insert and rolls the insert larger and locks it in place. Maybe this was'nt done when it was installed. I do know that you have to use the tool supplied or that it wont work. I've tried to use a standard bolt and it wont roll the threads in the bottom of the insert. Any shop that uses time-serts should have the kit and properly install a new one. Then get the correct drain plug installed so that it doesnt lock into place.