Thinking of a California 30

Porsches (911) are desirable cars but they are not Ferraris. They are reliable, handle very well and fast/faster but are limited in terms of the breadth of driving experience. Ferraris are noted for their uniquely broader packaging of entertainment value. You would know that as a Ferrari owner. That's not to say the 991.2 TTS is not distinctive, but if you look closely, the elaborate 911 lineup is essentially an array of incrementally more aggressive, better-performing cars and they make 10X as many. This makes the Ferraris much more expensive to develop and produce but also a lot more exclusive and exotic. By my estimate, there were only about 1480 Cali30s sold in NA (2013-2014), less than 2,800 Cali30s made, all told.

As regards whether the Cali30 is preferable to any turbocharged exotic, even without listening and feeling the difference in driving, consider why Ferrari and other marques went turbo. In the past, it was a cheap way to upgrade engine performance (e.g. BMW, Mercedes). Nowadays, it's because govt regulations and naïve obsession with comparing performance numbers made it economically impossible to do otherwise. Consider what Ferrari have stated they actually prefer. Is the 812 turbocharged? Would you prefer a turbo 812?

The Maserati GC does not have the same level of quality, sportiness, performance or fun as the Cali. AM Vantage manual, DBS manual were not deemed reliable, modern or as sporty, even new models do not have DCT-type transmissions, and overweight. IMO, Bentley CGTs are wonderful boulevard cruisers. I dislike looks, unrefined sound, cigar-shape of Mercs. Huracan is nice but has artificial sound, frumpy rear and "industrial CF". Spyder is awkward-looking. Aventador Spyder sound nice, look OK but way overpriced, dated, impractical and uncomfortable. MACs are fast, look OK but extremely bland interiors, hate the active suspension, feels like the car is driving you rather than the normal arrangement.

Finally, since you already own Ferraris, you'll know the biggest factor in owning an exotic like a Ferrari is actually how much confidence you have in the dealer/service you have available to patronize. If you already have that in the bag, IMO you're pretty good to go.

Good luck!

P.S. - standard hi-fi sounds adequate to me but the upgraded one would be "free" in a used car anyway. Not a significant decision-making factor. Mic picks up phone conversation fine when just puttering about.

 

My quick reading of the official site suggests that currently there are precisely two 30s with HS in the dealer network !

You may have to compromise on the HS and/or not worry about options

 

Do a search, someone has already done this on the forum.

 

A few more miles for twenty grand less http://preowned.ferrari.com/en/gb/search/2012/ferrari/california/grigio_titanio_metall.fq_3238-JCT600_Brooklands-ZFFTJ65C000187655

Or split the difference here http://preowned.ferrari.com/en/gb/search/2012/ferrari/california/blu_mirabeau_525-Dick_Lovett_Swindon-ZFFTJ65C000187820

 

Are you going to take it to the track? If no, performance is not very important.

I like the California because of the hard top.

I find the drive position much better. After test drive TTS and getting back in Ferrari I just smiled at how much fun it is to drive.

You see a Porsche at every light. I like that I don’t see my car at every corner.

 

I certainly enjoy my Cali T HS more than I did my 991tts but part of that is because I have a convertible. However, the sound is better, the interior is nicer and the car does drive better on the street and at the track. The big advantage of the Porsche is low end torque but I don't miss it because the Cali T is plenty fast enough with the turbos. and the HS makes it sound better and shift faster than the Porsche as well.

 

You are correct. They are not Cali30s. FWIW, Cali30s DO NOT have the milled Cavallino on the billet aluminum centre tunnel. Here are other details to also keep in mind:

- the Cali30 has much shorter ratio gearing which makes the car much more punchy than the earlier car if you drive in a spirited manner. This helps make the Cali30 much faster than the earlier car. Race cars use short ratios.

- the stiffer Eibach springs in the HS pack LOWERS the car and it no longer feels confused in rapid transitions.

- the HS pack reduces rack ratio from 2.5 turns to 2.3 and this is also very noticeable and very handy.​

The Cali30 is much more desirable if you are a performance-oriented driver.

 

I've had a 2013 Cali 30 HS and a 2011 997.2 Turbo S Coupe at the same time (got both used with very low mileage) so I can compare both side by side.

The Cali 30 sound's way better vs the Porsche Turbo and the ride is softer. Steering is a lot lighter as well vs the Porsche. Driving the Cali was an event and was actually a lot of fun when everything functioned well especially on mountain roads. The car felt a bit boaty but do not bother me at all.

The 997.2 TTS, on the other hand, was definitely a lot faster than the Cali especially once the turbo kicks in. But there's some lag, and power at very low RPM's had no power which might have been intentional to improve daily driveability. It was a quick fix though with a Europipe upgrade and sound improved although still nothing compared to the Ferrari NA V8 or even Porsche NA flat-6's. But the Porsche, even though is an older car, was a MUCH better built car vs the Ferrari.

Both cars feels more like a grand tourer than a full on sports car which is good on public roads. I guess the main question will be whether you will go for a sports car with extreme straight line acceleration and with very good grip but can feel a bit clinical vs an exotic softer sports car that is well, just average in terms of handling.

With my Cali experience, I experienced issues like sticky buttons everywhere, a creaky roof, a boot that refuses to close after roof operation, rear view mirror that detached itself from the base, broken O2 sensors, computer errors if the car wasn't used just over a week (you will need a charger), and other computer errors popping out when power is on but engine off for over 10 minutes (e.g. while refilling in a gas stop). While the 997.2 TTS, practically none of the above apart from regular wear and tear (e.g. leather getting old). Ok, maybe a dead battery once after not using the car for over 3 weeks which was resolved with a car charger.

When I only had the 997.2 TTS, it was starting to get boring since everything was running fine and it was only after I had my Ferrari when I realized its value even more. Because when the Cali was new, it was super exciting as I was like dating a hot model. At one point, I had to drive it around for my young boy after dinner almost everyday. But once strange issues started cropping up, the novelty wore off and I ended up driving the Porsche more often and in much farther distances.

With the Cali, I was visiting the dealer very often although they did their best to resolve issues. But after one was fixed, another came out so it started getting tiring. The dealer did offer me to buy their power warranty but I decided that with my busy lifestyle, I preferred a sports car that will run when I had a chance to drive it so I sold the Cali at a substantial loss. Actually, I've also moved on from the 997.2 but at almost the same price I got it for.

I do not regret owning a Ferrari and once Ferrari build quality does go up, I will consider again in the future. It is quite nice to have an Italian exotic (dreaming of a Lambo although it feels more German) but at least in my case, it cannot be the only sports car in my garage unlike say a Porsche.

 

FWIW I think most gremlins were issues that you would fix as the original owner.

Unfortunately, many people who buy these cars either don't drive them enough or like to flip cars, so the cars either don't have enough miles with each successive owner and/or the owners don't hang around long enough to stay on the dealers to fix the problems. My problems were all due to issues due to minor assembly line hiccups. The only wear-tear issue were the engine mounts which my tuner's mechanic spotted before I noticed them. Gearbox supports (discussed on another thread) may also require regular inspection.

I actually like the complex software that controls my Cali30 HS which also has HELE, making it even more complex. These systems make the car take on somewhat of a complex life of its own as it's never 100% the same or entirely predictable every time I drive it; which makes it more fun and interesting to own. I'd be driving along and then it would suddenly do some fun aggressive thing unexpectedly because I was aggressive with it earlier. I would then try to figure out how to make it do it again but it's never 100% controllable. This is not for everyone as some people may get startled or frustrated, especially if there's more than one regular driver, with different driving habits.

 

I've owned my 13 Cali 30 for about 2.5 years now and purchased a 14 991 turbo S a little over a year ago.
Probably the best attribute for the Cali is that is truly usable daily as apposed to previous Ferraris I've owned from the 80's and 90's.
I've had no mechanical faults with the Cali with exception of a dead battery. The 7 year service program is a big benefit.
As others have stated the Ferrari is definitely more of an event car than the 911. However the Turbo S is pretty aggressively styled as far as 911's go so and it does get some attention. The Cali however gets quite a bit more. The Porsche is a tad faster but the Ferrari experience is more intense especially the sound. In the 911 it feels as I sit lower and the car fits more like a glove surrounding me. They have really mastered the feel of the car after 50 plus years. It feels perfect. As far as use we mostly drive the 911 to and from work or if we are heading to downtown for a night out. If we are heading to an upscale area we are comfortable taking the Ferrari and will take that to the nicest places.
We always take the Ferrari for special weekends up the coast or to the desert. We would have no reservation taking the 911 and would be incredibly fun. It's just that the Cali makes a special weekend more so. You can use the rear seats about equally in both cars for small kids or an adult that has had a few beverages for a short ride
I think the 911 rides a tad softer than the Cali unless you bump the 911 suspension setting to sport or sport plus.
In summary both cars are near perfection. The driving experience is slightly different but very close.
For picking a car to drive it comes down to my mood and how much attention I want on a particular day.
These are great choices and a "luxury problem" decision you need to make.
Congrats to that and good luck. Either situation you will be pleased. I say Cali if you have to choose one.
My wife would say 911. But then I know she would miss the Cali on weekends away.
She says she likes to fly under the radar but she picks the 911 most days over five other more conservative car choices we have.
Its her first Porsche and a dream for her.

 

Going back to the Cali30, please do not get me wrong because a softer car is actually fun and playful like say a Mazda MX-5 (although in a completely different category) and its the opposite of a serious sports car like say, Porsches.

I sincerely hope to get back in a newer Ferrari again in the near future once I feel that they are building better quality cars. I just can't accept Ferrari people making excuses saying that their cars have "character" since it's "temperamental". I was tempted a bit when I saw a low mileage F12 on sale recently. But after recalling my Cali experience, I didn't want to go through the hassle again.

 

You should buy a Toyota or Honda if reliability is most important requirement. I own 2 Toyota's,

A Ferrari is very expensive to drive. I personally have had no issues with my California T.

 

As I recall, you had quite an ordeal with your Cali (was it ever resolved?), so I do not blame your reticence to hop back into the fray. Modern F-cars seem much more reliable than their predecessors based on my F-chat reading (and perhaps a tinge of confirmation bias) - but that's always of little consolation when it's your car with the gremlins. OwenC - I hope you can get back into an F-car soon, and it's a real peach...T

 

Yes, I get that the Cali30's ride is relatively soft compared to other Fcars and the high-end 911s. The Cali was designed to appeal to a broad audience including 1st-time Fcar buyers and women. So it had to be comfortable and practical when driven on a daily basis. The HS option for the Cali30 corrects most of the complaints about "soft" handling because the base Cali30 really didn't take hard cornering very competently.

The HS option uses stiffer Eibach springs and you can use even stiffer aftermarket springs. I currently have Novitech springs on my HS Cali30 and they are not harsh at all even though the Novitech spring rates are actually higher than those on the 991.1 GT3 - I find them very comfortable. You can make the Cali quite "butch" if you want to.

The lower reliability of Fcars compared to Pcars can probably be attributed to a number of reasons. I think the biggest two are because modern Fcars are often completely new models/new technology coupled with very low production numbers. OTOH the 911 is evolutionary and inherits many designs and components from earlier iterations and are made in the hundreds of thousands while there were only about 2500 Cali30 made. Therefore Ferrari is forever sorting out complicated new car designs - but this also has its advantages.

Fcars and Pcars have very different design intentions and driver appeal. Fcars are more exciting but require patience if there's a hiccup while Pcars are somewhat boring by comparison but are relatively more reliable and cheaper to maintain. So it's not necessarily temperamental cars or poor quality control, it's actually the nature of Ferrari purposely pursuing more radical design changes in order to deliver more excitement.

Put it this way, there are many thousands of happy Fcar owners so a single personal bad experience with one Fcar does not necessarily translate to guaranteed bad experiences with all Fcars.