The way I see it | FerrariChat

The way I see it

Discussion in 'FF/Lusso' started by Infidel, Jan 24, 2011.

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  1. Infidel

    Infidel Guest

    Jan 19, 2011
    269
    Southeast, USA
    The FF, or something similar to it, was bound to happen. Fiat is pushing Ferrari to be more profitable. Fiat decided that, to do so, Ferrari needed to expand its product offerings into new market niches. Fiat is pushing Maserati to do the same thing with the soon to be released SUV.

    I understand why Fiat wants Ferrari to penetrate these new market niches. My problem is with the execution.

    The FF is, to my tastes, not a very attractive design. It may be quite a performer on the track, but at that price point, style counts, too. And it just looks so... un-Ferrari-like.

    While I am not the biggest fan of modern day Lamborghinis, in contrast to the FF, Lamborghini's newest offering, the four-door Estoque, is quite attractive and instantly recognizable as a Lamborghini.

    Frankly, I am a bit concerned for Ferrari's designs at the moment. On the one hand, I think Ferrari hit an enormous home run with the Italia--exceptional performance and superb styling. But the California and FF leave me feeling like they could have done a substantially better job with each, especially when I contrast these cars against Maserati's GranTurismo and GranCabrio.
     
  2. anunakki

    anunakki Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Your post made me think of something...

    We are now a world economy and Ferrari is selling a lot of vehicles outside of the traditional locations from years past.

    I spend a decent amount of time in Asia and they dont really like 'flashy' cars. They are also a huge and growing market for Ferrari.

    While the 458 is more the average wealthy Americans style, the FF would be right at home in a wealthy Chinese garage.
     
  3. Scuderia Santo Luigi

    Scuderia Santo Luigi Formula Junior

    Apr 18, 2010
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    I agree on both accounts. I'm trying to like the FF, and trying is something I'm not accustomed to doing when it comes to liking Ferraris. Before it always came naturally.
     
  4. Infidel

    Infidel Guest

    Jan 19, 2011
    269
    Southeast, USA
    ... there is truth in your statement.

    The world is changing rapidly and the supercar market along with it. Ferrari is pushing into different market directions while attempting to continue to appeal to its historical base. That's quite a tight-rope act.

    In the Old Days, Ferrari could stick its nose up in the air at the likes of Lexus. But the Old Days are gone. Ferrari is facing new and stiffer competition at every turn, both from their historic rivals and from upstarts.

    And their primary market is rapidly changing, too. As someone else noted earlier in this thread, China/Asia is undoubtedly developing into the largest automobile market in the world and will soon dwarf North America and Europe combined. In 2010, GM, for the first time in its 102 year history, sold more cars in China than it did in the US. That's a pretty amazing fact and one that is sending shock waves throughout the entire automobile industry, Ferrari included. Here's a link to the story:

    http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=133176256
     
  5. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
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    As someone's signature says. "the first rule of the game is to stay in the game".
     
  6. Infidel

    Infidel Guest

    Jan 19, 2011
    269
    Southeast, USA
    And don't forget the "Go Green" mania that is, rightly or wrongly, sweeping the world. And the new fuel economy and emissions standards. Ferrari is like any other automobile manufacturer and must respond to these issues.
     
  7. Infidel

    Infidel Guest

    Jan 19, 2011
    269
    Southeast, USA
    Typically, it is love at first sight!

    By the way, Matt, I also live in St. Louis. Nice to meet you!
     
  8. Infidel

    Infidel Guest

    Jan 19, 2011
    269
    Southeast, USA
    The point is that the world is changing rapidly. Consider that Lexus, as a marque, has only existed for a little over 20 years. In that remarkably short lifespan, Lexus has grown into one of the world's most popular and profitable premium automobile brands. The LFA (no longer uses the hyphen) is a "halo" car that is designed to showcase Lexus' engineering prowess and share the stage with the world's most exclusive supercars. And the LFA, for a first effort, does a pretty good job of it, too.

    Neither Ferrari nor any of the other established supercar manufacturer can ignore the fact that the sand under their feet is shifting rapidly, as is evidenced by both the LFA and, to perhaps an even greater extent, by the Nissan GT-R. The latter being a car that delivers supercar performance (naught to 60 in 3.5 seconds and a top speed just under 200MPH) for a fraction of what an entry level Ferrari sells for. And it's a lot more reliable and easier to fix when it needs service.

    This is the new reality in which Ferrari and other supercar manufacturers now exist.
     
  9. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
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    While Ferrari must compete on a performance basis it can no longer rely on that as a unique selling point.
    Other better heeled makers will be able to apply more tech than Maranello can so Ferrari will never again be the fastest.
    This is not as crucial a matter as it once was though. Cars are so fast these days that not only are the differences in performance marginal but the capabilities of even mid level cars are virtually unusable on the street.
    What Ferrari has is tradition, exclusivity and Cachet'. These are highly perishable qualities though. Exploit them too vigorously and they are destroyed. Ferrari has shown great interest in brand management for a reason.
     
  10. Infidel

    Infidel Guest

    Jan 19, 2011
    269
    Southeast, USA
    I couldn't agree more. An entry-level $30,000 Mustang GT now runs the track virtually as fast as a $60,000 BMW M3. Performance is being commoditized, and the price points just keep dropping.

    Regarding Ferrari marketing its provenance, sure, that means a lot to those of us who grew up in Europe or North America, being spoon fed the rich Ferrari legacy.

    But a freshly minted Chinese millionaire won't know Enzo Ferrari from Elvis Presley, and won't care about either. So, the question is, How is Ferrari going to differentiate itself and successfully compete in this new market over the next decade or two? I believe the Italia is a very compelling answer. But the California and, to a greater extent, the FF... not so much.
     
  11. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
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    IMO its a mistake to think of there still being a single Ferrari market or customer type. A car usable on less than perfect roads or one that can be driven and maintained by a nonfanatic ;) will appeal to new demographics.
     
  12. Infidel

    Infidel Guest

    Jan 19, 2011
    269
    Southeast, USA
    #12 Infidel, Jan 25, 2011
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2011
    The point I made is that Ferrari cannot rely on its provenance to "sell" its cars in the new world markets. It is going to have to respond to potential customers with something more than, "Yes, I know the Nissan GT-R is faster, more reliable and costs one-third the price. But this... this is a Ferrari!"

    Ferrari can, for the time being, get by with that marketing pitch in Europe and North America, where the Ferrari brand and legacy is firmly entrenched in our popular cultures. However, in China, 50% of the population is under the age of 35 and have no idea what (or who) is a Ferrari. How is Ferrari going to compete in that market? How is Ferrari going to convince the new Asian millionaire that he should buy a 599 instead of an LFA? The "Ferrari heritage" isn't the answer because, unfortunately, it is unknown and unimportant.
     
  13. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
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    That's a big reason for Ferrari's participation in F1 and why they back Bernie's "Globalization" of the sport.
     
  14. Infidel

    Infidel Guest

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    #14 Infidel, Jan 25, 2011
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2011
    But the percentage of North American and European consumers who follow F1 is tiny. And the percentage of Asian consumers who follow F1 is so small it can't even be quantified.

    Ferrari is going to have to come up with a branding strategy that is considerably more penetrating than F1 if it hopes to retain its position as the world's dominant supercar manufacturer over the next decade or two.

    In that regard, I have to tip my hat to our German friends. How many new fans of Audi were created worldwide by their creative product placement in Iron Man 2? Every time a teenager watches Tony Stark fire up his Audi R8 Spyder, he's being programed to want one. Fiat and Ferrari are going to have to get a lot smarter and more progressive with their branding efforts than simply winning races.
     
  15. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Its to increase marque awareness that they're racing in China, India and Russia
     
  16. TheMayor

    TheMayor Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    Ferrari is one of the best known brands in the world. I believe the Cavalino Rampante is second only to Coca Cola in image recognition world wide.

    During the "bad 80's" when the F1 time was an also ran and being creamed by almost everyone, it still had it's biggest growth in passenger car sales -- particularly in the US and Germany. It created the F40 which many think was it's last high water mark.

    So, the idea that Ferrari "needs" F1 is really more of a myth at this point. I think it's outgrown it. I don't think it cares at all that there is no US F1 race -- aside from the fact that it could charge it's sponsors more. It's great "free" advertising as the sponsors and F1 organization pays for most of the bills.

    I think F1 needs Ferrari more than Ferrari needs F1 at this point.
     
  17. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Ferrari may not need F1 as much as F1 needs Ferrari but I think that its so much a part of its corporate culture that they'll never leave.
    My original point was that as there gets to be less and less to differentiate Ferrari from its road rivals it has to play to its Mystique. That mystique was largely formed on the track and racing reinforces that image.
    Also I'd say that while F1 may not be on the mind of buyers it is on the mind of much the general population. Like it or not a lot of Ferraris are bought by people who care very much what others think is cool.
     
  18. Tifosi15

    Tifosi15 Formula 3

    Jul 15, 2009
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    The 458 is being featured in the next Transformer movie, the Testarossa was an integral feature for Miami Vice (and the F430 in the more recent movie) and of course the 308 in Magnum PI. I even think the California is being featured in the new Five-O show on CBS or whatever channel though I can't confirm that. The show Royal Pains has featured a myriad of Ferrari's from modern to vintage. The German's aren't the only ones that use this strategy
     
  19. anunakki

    anunakki Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Wealthy Asians are very brand conscious. They are aware of what the rest of the world considers to be 'the best' of everything...and thats what they want. They dont live in a localized bubble.

    You make a lot of (false) assumptions when saying the above.
     
  20. TheMayor

    TheMayor Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    I agree with Jerry.

    And, that 50% of people who don't know the history or tradition of Ferrari don't matter anyway. It still leaves a market 3 times bigger than the US and getting more style concious and wealthier every day.

    GM now sells more cars in China than it does in the US. A lot of them are Buicks and Cadillacs. To say you can't sell a good amount of Ferrari's in China is not understanding the market there.

    Just in Hong Kong, a few years ago Ferrari passed the 1000 new cars sold mark. That's from a population of just 7 million.
     
  21. modena1_2003

    modena1_2003 F1 Rookie

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    Do you think Ferrari have ever had to "convince" anybody about anything regarding their cars? The cars in each segment speak for themselves when compared to their competition, and a savvy buyer notices something good when he/she sees it.

    I'd like to see a poll in China of people under 35 who are familiar with Ferrari. Have you seen the numbers showing how big China is for Ferrari right now? They've already sold over 1,000 cars, and that number is making many other manufacturers very interested.

    And, LF-A compared to a 599?
     
  22. Infidel

    Infidel Guest

    Jan 19, 2011
    269
    Southeast, USA
    Second to Coke?

    Ferrari doesn't even make it onto the list of the Top 100 most recognizable brands worldwide according to BusinessWeek. Of the 100 most recognized brands, the top automobile marques in order of recognition are:

    7th. Toyota
    10th. Mercedes-Benz
    15th. BMW
    19th. Honda
    30th. Ford
    (Harley-Davidson, a maker of mortorcycles, comes in at 45th.)
    56th. Volkswagon
    74th. Audi
    75th. Hyundai
    80th. Porsche
    92nd. Lexus

    I find your comments very telling in that they demonstrate how biased we are to believe the rest of the world thinks as we do.

    And, I must respectfully remind you that this is not the 1980s. The economic and competitive landscape has changed monumentally in the last 30 years.
     
  23. Infidel

    Infidel Guest

    Jan 19, 2011
    269
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    The world has changed. I agree that in Europe and North America, Ferrari is obviously well-established in our popular cultures. But, on a worldwide basis, as is demonstrated in that poll I just posted, Ferrari is not a worldwide dominant brand.

    And, yes, the LFA is definitely a fine competitor against the Ferrari 599. In fact, when Car and Driver magazine compared the LFA against the 599, the LFA took the crown.

    Like it or not, the world is a very different place than it was just a decade ago and Ferrari is going to have to adapt to it quickly. The 458 is a remarkable machine that will compete--and win--against anything similar. But the California, and now, FF? I think both have fallen short of their marks.
     
  24. Infidel

    Infidel Guest

    Jan 19, 2011
    269
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    I support my analysis with facts.

    And, the fact is that the Ferrari brand is not well-known on a worldwide basis, especially when contrasted against competitors Mercedes-Benz or BMW.

    I know, to some of you, that is a difficult thing to imagine. But it is true.
     
  25. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
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    The time when Ferrari sold in profitable numbers to just the hard core are long gone. (If they ever existed) They have to compete not only with better built, more reliable and less expensive makes but with cars of higher power and faster specs.
    They also have committed large sums to increase production and need to expand their customer base to remain viable.
    Its obvious that they're reaching out to new market segments both geographically and demographically. GPs in China, Russia, India and other emerging markets increase brand awareness and cars like the FF and Cali make ownership less daunting to those used to Mercedes and Lexus style maintenance.
    Adapt or die as the saying goes.
     

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