The real F40 with VIN 90969? (2nd is 85397)

Just to keep this thread alive.

As per post #5 https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/posts/147707895/

85397:
Assembly #02475.
Engine #22520.
Gearbox #100.
Body #46.
9 May 1990 build start.
5 June 1990 completion date.

Delivered new to Autoterminal S.p.A., on to Sa.Mo.Car. S.p.A. in Rome, later to Japan.

 

PS. "Carthago delenda est"

 

Maybe the real car is our 89009, that was Stolen in 1996...

 

I love intrigue.

 

Marcel Massini is an alchemist (a person who transforms or creates through a seemingly magical process) of the highest order.... such an honor to read his thoughts. (through F-Chat, not telepathically, that would be weird..!!)

 

According to post #440 the blue "90969" have been confirmed to be 85397 originally.
The red 90969 in OZ have been confirmed as being 90969 without any known "issues" or missing history, as far as we know.

What is yet to be confirmed is the full history of the blue, cloned "90969". (i.e. 85397)

"Carthago delenda est"

 

UK authorities still working on the case. Needs some time.

Marcel Massini

 

Would acid testing of the the frame tube where the serial number appears and a comparison of serial numbers on various parts (engine, gearbox, frame assembly number) not provide a reasonably quick result? I understand from an earlier post that they have already enrolled the help of Ferrari.

 

The VIN of the F40 is not directly stamped onto the chassis tubes, its stamped onto a metal plate which is then spot welded onto the chassis, so grind off those welds, remove the plate and its just an F40 chassis with no ID, add another stamped plate and hey presto you have another F40, which is what happened here, as shown on previous photos, so acid testing would not help.

 

As explained elsewhere numbers can be found on various body parts etc and it is absolutely clear that the "blue F40 in the UK" is NOT 90969. That "blue F40 in the UK" is 85397. Zero doubt at all.
But there are legal issues pending now, as can be imagined.

Marcel Massini

 

Obviously very thorough examination on an almost forensic level have confirmed that "the blue F40 in the UK" is indeed 85397
The assembly no. matches that ch.no + engine no., gearbox no. + body no. where they could be found, I believe.

As according to post #5 https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/posts/147707895/

85397:
Assembly #02475.
Engine #22520.
Gearbox #100.
Body #46.
9 May 1990 build start.
5 June 1990 completion date.

Delivered new to Autoterminal S.p.A., on to Sa.Mo.Car. S.p.A. in Rome, later to Japan.

What remains to be proven is how and when it ended up as a BLUE clone of 90969, and then UAE, and ultimately in the UK.

"Carthago delenda est"

 

Whilst we are at it….. it would be great to know what happened to the stolen 89009 from 1996???


May the Horse be with you

 

Andrea DG disappeared?
Maybe a separate thread?

Marcel Massini

 

Thank you MM,

I just looked it up…. It was a very interesting read.

These cars must have been quite easy to steel??

Especially if so many went missing so early on.


May the Horse be with you

 

PP,

Did you buy it from an Indonesian?? LOL!

 

BTW - I don't know if I can remember who you sold it to?

 

Was is Jens Knoblich?

 

Yes! I may have slightly spelt his name wrong.

Ask Mark Coffee about him.... He met him during an Enzo delivery at the Factory. He deals with a heap of high end cars in Europe, or at least did back in the day.

Jens save my arse when I bought that 458 Challenge car in Europe and the German dealer never had the car.

One phone call from Jens and my money was returned with interest.

 

Just to keep this thread alive.

As per post #5 https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/posts/147707895/

85397:
Assembly #02475.
Engine #22520.
Gearbox #100.
Body #46.
9 May 1990 build start.
5 June 1990 completion date.

Delivered new to Autoterminal S.p.A., on to Sa.Mo.Car. S.p.A. in Rome, later to Japan.

"Carthago delenda est"

 

Can I ask - how did UK law enforcement get involved? Who called them? Was it the owner in Australia who filed a formal complaint?

I ask because while my car has been investigated in Italy and found to be wearing its original, unadulterated VIN number on its frame, that has only resulted in the Italian authorities deeming that no crime has occurred and releasing my car to me. It has done nothing to solve the mystery of a cloned car in France, so I still cannot register and drive my car.

The options would seem to be to write to the other owner in France and politely ask for him to submit his car for examination, to contact the police in France and submit a formal complaint, or to launch a civil lawsuit in France against the current owner.

While I would prefer the French authorities to take action, the problem for me is that because the Italian police can find no evidence that my car is a forgery, no crime was committed in Italy and they have closed the investigation. While some inter-agency requests have gone out to the French police to take a closer look at the other car, without a report of a crime, there would appear to be no reason for the Gendarmerie to act on a car which has been registered in France for decades.