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The project thread!

Discussion in '365 GT4 2+2/400/412' started by preston400i, Apr 16, 2007.

  1. aidanparte

    aidanparte Formula 3

    Jul 18, 2004
    1,200
    Preston

    I could buy it off you and drive to Massachusetts and then you could buy I back and drive it home to CA! That would be a great shake-down run for the car.

    Aidan
     
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  3. blkprlz

    blkprlz Formula 3

    Mar 24, 2007
    2,159
    Tampa bay
    Full Name:
    Bruce
    Preston,

    I wouldn't lie about anything, that could come back & haunt you. That's a great idea about selling it to someone else (for cheap to keep the sales tax down) & then repurchase.

    Bruce
     
  4. bundas

    bundas F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Dec 31, 2005
    6,885
    lexington ky usa
    Full Name:
    mitchell barnes
    my 79 400i was registered in fla. purchased from an estate sale. i have copy of fla t.itle but cannot register in ky because fla denies record, go figure. what me worry. our govt. at work, and we pay for this, yeh sure. whar ever. sell to nice guy in friendly state they will repair rebuild title. that can be done in a state that does not show 'salvage' in title and sell back to you. there is no other legal choice. best of luck. if you need help i will try to expedite
     
  5. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Nov 19, 2001
    22,066
    The Brickyard
    Full Name:
    The Bad Guy
    Why not just drive it to your local department of motor vehicles, have them give the car the once over, and then pay for registration?

    Awesome job by the way. Truly inspiring work.
     
  6. bjwhite

    bjwhite F1 Rookie

    Mar 17, 2006
    4,046
    Seattle, WA
    Full Name:
    Brian White
    My BMW 540i 6-speed was hit by a tree and totaled. I bought it back from the insurance company and fixed it. After 2 years during the fix job, I figured the state of Washington would have some crazy process. Nope.

    Just paid a fee at the DMV and they gave me new tags and issued me a fresh title (with a brand on it of course, which I don't mind.)

    Typically a state will have a DMV or State Patrol inspection for re-registering cars that have been "totaled." Yours should be no exception.
     
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  8. preston400i

    preston400i Karting

    Dec 26, 2006
    131
    Well, in California at least (and leave it to them!) there is a Nonrepairable Certificate that differs from a Salvage Title. A salvaged car can be registered but it always shows a salvage history. A nonrepairable car can never be licensed in California again.

    I'm in Colorado, but apparently the 'nonrepairable' thing carries over. As I mentioned before, I think the only way is to sell it to a no-title state and buy it back, but I have some questions about that too:

    The only non-title States that I know of are Alabama, Connecticut, and Nevada. I assume the vehicle would have to be physically present to be registered in those States, so Nevada is the only one that is even remotely an option. Does anyone know of any other western States that would play ball? And does anyone know someone in one of these states that would do this?

    Does anyone have any friends at the California or Colorado DMV that could make this little problem go away for a nominal fee? :)

    Title problem aside, the quarter window trim and the door panels are all that's left to put back!
     
  9. Ashman

    Ashman Two Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Sep 5, 2002
    28,585
    MA
    Full Name:
    John

    Being n Connecticut, I am not entirely sure but I think that you are right in that the car has to go through a safety inspection in order to get registered. I do not believe that there is any date limitation on that even though a car 25 years old or older is exempt from emissions testing. AFAIK, any car coming in from out of state needs a safety inspection, regardless of age.
     
  10. It's Ross

    It's Ross Formula 3

    Jul 30, 2007
    2,018
    Barrington, Ill. USA
    Full Name:
    Ross
    #158 It's Ross, Jul 27, 2009
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2009


    Non-repairable my eye. I suspect this designation is there to serve manufacturers when disposing of damaged new cars they don't wish to ever be approached as liable for.
    A juggling of titles might work but I'd look to your own DMW as painful as it sounds. Your car while significantly damaged in a monetary sense was actually not damaged badly. You have documentation of this. PERHAPS Ca. DMV has some one who actually knows something about motor vehicles who would agree to remove the brand, you have certainly proven it to be incorrect.
    Good luck.
    Oh yeah, Alabama has changed their ways I understand.
     
  11. preston400i

    preston400i Karting

    Dec 26, 2006
    131
    So I went for a quick (and still illicit) drive the other day and it seems like the right bank is being massively over-fueled. There's a lot of soot in the right tailpipe and the car doesn't want to idle or run cleanly until at least 3500 rpm. Is there some common failure I should look for or do I just lean out that side until I get back in the ballpark for mixture?

    I'm still exploring different avenues for titling/registration but so far without much luck. That's still the biggest hurdle left on this project.
     
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  13. tr0768

    tr0768 Formula Junior

    Oct 28, 2008
    715
    maltby wa
    Full Name:
    Howard Musolf
    With the advent of computers a branded title will travel from state to state these days. I would start at the sorce of the salvage certificate. May I assume you purchased this Ferrari from a salvage pool, or did you purchase it from a salavage(wrecking yard)?.

    If you did purchase from as salvage pool and recieved a salvage certificate issued by the insurance company, look at the certificate and see who signed the document, it should have the name of the adjuster and the insurance company. Again if that is how you purchased the car go back to the pool and aske them to research the sale and find the original claim number and adjuster. Follow that chain back to the adjuster. In most cases they have no real clue if a car is rebuildable or not. These people are paper pushers and claim closers. Most today have no idea how a car is put together or if it is repairable. They rely on the body shop initial estimates and take their word for totaling or repairing a claim.

    Once you get to the adjuster you can show pictures of the vehicle and the repairs. The form they use to send a car to the salvage pool has a selection of check off boxes which the adjuster picked one of the above. So you need to convince him or her that the car is and was really a repairable road safe car. They should be able to give you an amended form that will allow you to retitle the car.

    If you purchased this car from a salvage/wrecking yard they should be able to give you a notorized bill of sale that will allow you to take the car and the bill of sale to the DMV for an inspection and a document that will allow you to retittle the car.

    I have rebuilt and retitlled many vehicles both drivers and collector cars and I will tell you don't waste the time with an Alabama title. All states just laugh at them and will not accept them for official documentation, also with the computers today you can not wash a title by tittling it in one state and then transfering it to another.

    The last resort is to go to Colorado DMV and plead ignorance and beg for guidence and direction, big crockadile tears will help. I always asked for the 1st inspection appointment in the morning and had a dozen dougnuts for the inspectors. Ask if you can get bonded title, Wahsington State has a bonded title that allows us to register and license a vehicle for 3 years before we get the actual title.

    Good Luck,

    Howard musolf
    tr0768
     
  14. ArtS

    ArtS F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Nov 11, 2003
    6,084
    Central NJ
    Howard,

    Welcome to the '70s and '80s 2+2 section! I like your write-up, great advice.

    Regards,

    Art S.
     
  15. Simon^2

    Simon^2 F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 17, 2005
    11,989
    At Sea Level
    any update?
     
  16. ScottB

    ScottB Rookie

    Aug 30, 2005
    47
    Chico, CA
    Full Name:
    Scott Buralli
    Preston,

    If you are still looking for a front and/or rear windshield they are available new through an ebay seller. User code is MrFiat. Very costly, but very nice. I bought one for a vintage Porsche race car last year. Excellent shipping, perfect fit.

    Scott B
     
  17. preston400i

    preston400i Karting

    Dec 26, 2006
    131
    Sorry I haven't posted any updates for a while, but I'm stuck, I've been stuck for a while, and I don't think I'll ever get un-stuck.

    The car is more or less done, and has been in that state for a while now. Yes, there are a number of little odds and ends to take care of, but a couple of weekends would probably make it roadworthy.

    So why haven't I finished it? Because there is no possible way I will ever legally put it on the road. The paperwork for this car is a mess that cannot be cleaned up. Just to review, it has a non-repairable title which prevents it from ever being registered. DMV databases are linked nationwide, so the brand shows up even in no-title States. A non-repairable title is only allowed two reassignments and it had that many before it ever got to me. I don't know what insurance company salvaged it, so I can't go back to them. I can't think of any other way to get around it that isn't highly illegal.

    I have to go in a different direction. In a perfect world, someone with a DMV connection and loose ethics would buy it and see it through to completion. In reality, I know a lot of people out there in 400land are hungry for parts, and I'm still determined to get some use out of this car. So, what I've been thinking is, I'd like to use the motor in a GTO or Daytona replica and sell the rest for parts. That leads to my 3-part question:

    Am I setting myself up for a lot of hatred in the Ferrari community by doing this, even though the car will never go on the road again as it is?

    Is anything besides the engine worth anything to anyone?

    Does anyone know if this motor will fit in any of the replicas? The GTO's are based on the Datsun 240Z, so that's a small engine bay, but people supposedly use V8's with room to spare. The Daytonas are based on the Corvette, which would allow the engine to bolt straight to the driveline, but it looks like the front suspension might get in the way of a longer motor.

    Thanks in advance for your help and advice, as always.
     
  18. bpu699

    bpu699 F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Dec 9, 2003
    13,154
    wisconsin/chicago
    Full Name:
    bo
    You have the drivetrain for a really cool ferrari replica :). Hello Ferris Beuhler!

    Or, sell the drive train on a kit car site....
     
  19. Ashman

    Ashman Two Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Sep 5, 2002
    28,585
    MA
    Full Name:
    John
    That's a shame because it looks as though you put a lot of time, money and effort into a project that would have been pretty challenging even without the title issues.

    I wonder if there are any countries out there where the title issue might not be so severe? It's probably a long shot but that might be the best way to get the highest value for the car as a running vehicle.

    The engine would make a good powerplant for a replica or a special, think of the California style hot rod that was built a few years ago.

    As for the parts, you most certainly could get some decent money for a lot of them if they are in decent shape. Lenses for the lights, you know about the windshield and rear window, all of the interior switches (e.g. the heater/defroster switches often get broken when the cabling freezes up, the turn signal and wiper switches, etc.), outside mirrors, other crash parts and trim items and so on. It just depends whether you have the patience and ability to have a slowly disappearing carcass on your property somewhere.

    I admire you for your effort and, even though there turned out to be a unsolvable problem with the project, your results that you were able to achieve. Good luck with your next project.
     
  20. Fritz Ficke

    Fritz Ficke Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jan 3, 2006
    1,870
    Tucson, AZ.
    Full Name:
    Fritz Ficke
    Your effort was greater than most of us would have done, unless you have money to burn do what is right by you $$$ wise.
     
  21. ArtS

    ArtS F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Nov 11, 2003
    6,084
    Central NJ
    Actually, I think the answer is either a lawyer that knows how to undo the title mess (there must be a way) or export. If you export - to Canada, Australia or Europe - you will get a higher price than you can in the states anyway (actually you will probobly get the same as the buyer has to pay shipping and VAT) but more importantly, your hard work devoted to saving a Ferrari will not be discarded - your car would look pretty cool in the south of France or on the autobahn.

    Do you know the car's original country of residence?

    Regards,

    Art S.

    PS. For Canada, I think Brett can help and there are a number of european dealers on this site as well.
     
  22. preston400i

    preston400i Karting

    Dec 26, 2006
    131
    Interesting that you mention the California hot rod. My dad actually suggested putting the engine in a T-Bucket! He says all those little header pipes would look cool, and I suppose he has a point.

    I really don't have the means to part the car out myself; I would just be selling the engine-less car.

    Wouldn't an international buyer want a titled car?
     
  23. Simon^2

    Simon^2 F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 17, 2005
    11,989
    At Sea Level
    Sorry Preston.

    Part it out or e-bay it.
     
  24. preston400i

    preston400i Karting

    Dec 26, 2006
    131
    I really feel bad for having let you guys down. You gave me so much advice and encouragement, only for Big Brother to stop our progress cold.

    I have been talking to one of the suppliers of 240Z-based GTO replicas, and he is optimistic about the 400 engine fitting. Apparently Jag and BMW V-12's have been used successfully before. I'm not sure how the external dimensions of those engines compare, but I seem to remember the Jag being pretty big. I've nixed the California and Daytona replicas on the grounds of cost, as kits start at around $20k in both cases.

    Does anyone know offhand how much the 400 engine weighs?

    In any event...If someone wants a complete, running, driving parts car, PM me. Please, no requests for individual parts.
     
  25. dstacy

    dstacy F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Jan 23, 2006
    11,079
    GMT -5 & GMT +1
    Full Name:
    Dave
    You're assuming you actually did let us down which you did not. I'm sure I'm safe in saying we all feel horrible for you after all the work, time, and money you've put into this deal.
    Please check further into applying for a lost title or some other means in another state.
     
  26. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Dec 6, 2002
    74,307
    Houston, Texas
    Full Name:
    Bubba
    Here you can also apply for a Title for a Home Built Project, while it's meant for things like hunting jeeps and dune buggys, I don't see where a 400i wouldn't fly under that radar.

    Just thinking out loud....
     
  27. ArtS

    ArtS F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Nov 11, 2003
    6,084
    Central NJ
    Preston, if you were to sell it intact, what would you want for it?

    Regards,

    Art S.
     
  28. 300man

    300man Karting

    Mar 19, 2010
    122
    Hi! Sorry to hear about your predicament. The suggestion by Art to try export the car is a good one, it would at least ensure its survival, and all the work you've done wouldn't have been in vain. European rules are all different and some are quite arcane, if not byzantine. France has got VGA rule ( vehicules gravement accidentes - Badly smashed vehicles), which would probably apply to yours, and they're particularly keen on tidy paperwork, so I doubt you'd get customers from there. Britain, where I live , is a better bet. There are special categories for rebuilt 'beasts' with a mix of components. They're called Q plates, and I think yours would probably be issued with one of these, at worse. As yours is mostly one car , with the roof of another, it could probably even be registered in a normal category. As a guide , prices here range from about 5000 Sterling for a 'dog' to around 20000 for a mint one from a dealer. Ptch it somewhere round the middle and explain what's been done to it and maybe you'll get some joy. Britain used to be a grat place for Specials. I've seen bathtubs and sofas road-Legal on Q plates, but European bureaucracy is slowly taking over. Real enthusiats here don't mind Left Hand Drive, but it usually knocks a bit off the values.
    I hope you can sort something out !
    Cheers,

    Eric
     

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