The One Thing You Need to Become a Race Car Driver | Page 2 | FerrariChat

The One Thing You Need to Become a Race Car Driver

Discussion in 'Tracking & Driver Education' started by LightGuy, Mar 21, 2020.

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  1. Ky1e

    Ky1e Formula 3

    Mar 4, 2011
    1,250
    FL
    Believe it or not basically all of the responses above are correct and I agreed with most of them (in my opinion and I race cars in IMSA, pay pro drivers and am with them every other weekend in the paddock-- will do full IMSA GS season and full IMSA Prototype Challenge Season-- will be my 5th straight year). There are elements of all of the above, and they are all true. And it also varies from driver to driver and situation to situation. There are true "earned their drive by driving alone"-- no money and worked their way up the ladder, and there are those that money had a lot to do with their success. They all have a ton of talent. There are also tons of guys on the sidelines with the talent but dont have a ride. Money ALWAYS helps. Even the guys that came up form karting and have no funding and "earned their rides" spent a lot of their families money to get them the chance to get started and be seen (just like any other sport where its tough to get ot the top). If you have money you can jump a lot of that process, but you have to have talent. In summary there is a mix, I dont think you can make a statement one way or the other, except for money certainly helps, and helps a lot. But there are guys who didnt bring much money-- it's possible but much harder.
     
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  2. Ianjoub

    Ianjoub Formula Junior

    Dec 22, 2019
    899
    Homosassa, FL USA
    Full Name:
    Ian Joubert
    My point is that sports teams do have open tryouts, some even close to the professional level. All it costs them is some time. You do not have people having open tryouts in expensive machinery like race cars/bikes/boats, etc...
     
  3. spirot

    spirot F1 World Champ

    Dec 12, 2005
    14,501
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    Tom Spiro
    When I was racing in Formula Renault in - summer of 1990 in France and Northern Italy, Olivier Panis was THE guy. He was so fast and he won everything. he was fortunate that he had Elf sponsorship, and came up through Karting and got into Winfield when it was run under Lagardere's system... his family had nothing and even then they spent everything they had...but he was very good and made it to F-1... and did not go so well, the mostly wrong team at the wrong time.

    Hamilton is a great example of raw talent that was found early on and nurtured... otherwise he'd still be running remote control cars vs. real F-1 cars. if you are going to progress as a professional its Hard HARD work. Nobody cuts you any slack...and says "that's all right you'll get them next time".... it's more like why id you not push harder, your .008sec off in this corner etc.... with modern Telemetry there is no hiding a bad day. engineers overlay traces every lap, and can pinpoint weakness = and those who can adjust and fix it and those that can't.... that is the one thing that I think sports games like Football etc... don't have. you get compared to yards, touchdowns etc.. but nobody ( yet ) is recording your physical movement and comparing to others etc... teams can see and tell right away in just a few laps who has it and who does not. As an amateur you can have good and bad days... and nobody really cares.... win one day - shunt out the next... see you next weekend is all you get. In professional teams ... your whole career is on the line every lap. Personally, that is why I give the F-1 guys and their counterparts the benefit of the doubt - there is a lot of pressure on them... and to do what they do, at that level is truly amazing. even when Vettel ran into Hamilton on purpose .... its just the raw emotion and stress coming out... BUT the difference is they are paid to control that... that is what is so hard.
     
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  4. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
    41,300
    ESP
    Full Name:
    Bas
    Exactly this!
     
  5. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
    41,300
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    Full Name:
    Bas
    Out of genuine interest, what does it take? I can't see where the real money is spend. Of course to be a professional ball player you need tremendous talent and having the right connections will be the biggest help, probably.

    Just to get through the karting ranks (that's before F3/F2 mind you), a million euro is spend. A million! A season F3 costs another 600K to a million. F2, assuming you only do 1 season is another 1.5 to 2 million. And none of that guarantees an F1 seat, or any paying seat at all...3 million euros. Many drivers do 2 seasons F2 and 2 seasons F2, so 5 million and even if you're a great talent, it doesn't guarantee F1 seat. If you're decent enough you'll be on the radar for sportscar teams, or perhaps indycar. If you're the unlucky chap that finishes among the last in F2, I've no idea how they end up and if they even get paid driving in pro-am cars.
     
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  6. spicedriver

    spicedriver F1 Rookie

    Feb 1, 2011
    3,859
    That's because it's not how fast you are, it's how much money you have.

    Tell a pro team owner that you're the greatest thing since sliced bread. You can go out and set a new lap record on a whim. The team owner's response will be "Great. What's your budget ?" Mario was faster in the dual cockpit demo car, than Matsushita in the regular Indy car. Matsushita was there because he had the money.

    Don't kid yourselves.
     
  7. Ky1e

    Ky1e Formula 3

    Mar 4, 2011
    1,250
    FL
    #32 Ky1e, Dec 23, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2020
    It depends on the Team and the Series. A big budget program is going to pick the fastest drivers and lower tier program will place a bigger emphasis on money being brought to the table. A top F1 team might look for the best talent period. A mid-pack Indy team might need the driver to bring a lot of money to the table. When money is being brought its usually the driver bringing sponsor dollars. Of course there are cases (like Stroll) where the driver is bring his own funds. Like I said all the scenarios happen but you cant try and pigeon hole your singular belief that you saw something happen so that how it all works.

    F1 and NASCAR can be supported by sponsorship dollars and fund pros that bring no money. Indy Car and Sportscar are different and need funds brought. You referenced a Series that needs funds brought.

    In sports car racing the gentleman driver brings the funds and pays the pro. Some top teams (like Penske) will pay for all the Pros and no gentleman driver. Like I said (again) all the scenarios happen, it depends on the Series, Team and program.
     
  8. spicedriver

    spicedriver F1 Rookie

    Feb 1, 2011
    3,859
    All race series need funded drivers. If you want to race cars, you're going to need money. A lot of money. Anybody that says otherwise, simply doesn't know what they're talking about.
     
  9. Ky1e

    Ky1e Formula 3

    Mar 4, 2011
    1,250
    FL
    #34 Ky1e, Dec 24, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2020
    Well I race in IMSA, own a race team (5th straight year) and personally I know LOTS of pro drivers (including my co-driver) that bring zero dollars, never brought any money (or sponsors dollars), earned their way up from karting and the ladder system and they only money they make is from being paid to drive (six figures at age 24). So I guess you are the one that doesnt know what you are talking about.
     
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  10. spicedriver

    spicedriver F1 Rookie

    Feb 1, 2011
    3,859
    Wow, that's amazing. You wouldn't mind listing their names ?
     
  11. Nuvolari

    Nuvolari F1 Veteran
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    Sep 3, 2002
    6,370
    Toronto / SoCal
    Full Name:
    Rob C.
    This is a subject that I am very qualified to speak of as it has been the overriding focus of my life for close to the last 30 years.

    I come from a middle-class background and while my parents gave me every opportunity they could when it came to racing there was ZERO money on offer nor was there a single family contact to help my progress. I truly started my journey with nothing and my only advantage was a brother who put in plenty of sweat equity over the years trying to help me where he could. I was desperate to drive racing cars and did just about anything short of sell my body to get enough money to just participate. As soon as I finished school I sold everything I had and moved to Europe to pursue racing there. I worked every waking hour to get money to race and never once had a true 'commercial' sponsor where I was giving real tangible return on the money I was getting. I just got in front of so many people and was young enough for some to pity/like me that I collected enough to be able to do some racing. I always did well and performed well beyond what was believed that my machinery could do but the breaks never came. A free ride here and there, a few dollars here and there but never anything close to calling myself a paid professional and I certainly was not going anywhere.

    Needless to say over the years I have had a close look at literally thousands of racers and I have only ever known of ONE that made it further than I did with similar possibilities. This person worked incredibly hard and stuck at it many years longer than I did only to do very little more than I managed and he never made it either. EVERY single other person benefited from either A. Family money / connections or B. A benefactor who financed them well before there was any reason to do so. I did not have 'A' and spent years looking for 'B' realizing eventually that this person is as rare as a winning lottery ticket because your performances barely matter as there are TONS of promising drivers out there. I'm not saying that there are zero people who make it with limited money I'm just saying I have never met one much like I've never met a big lottery winner either; they are that rare.

    In my early 20's I decided to stop living at the race track hoping for my lottery ticket to come along and have since pursued racing from the other side as a gentleman driver by building a business and spending my money and leveraging my contacts to finance progress (which has been much more than I ever achieved hustling as a promising driver). Along the way I help others who were me 10 or 20 years back but there is no gains in doing so beyond the feel-good factor.

    With the passage of time I have seen the cost of racing go up exponentially mainly due to an influx of very wealthy kids wanting to be the next F1 star. As such by the early 20's there are countless drivers who have had a LOT of money spent on them either out of money or possibilities flooding into sportscar racing looking for rides. There are quite a few drivers getting paid ok money in sportscar racing but expense for their 'education' to get to that point will far exceed the money they will likely ever earn as a pro.

    Globally the number of racing drivers who eventually reach a cashflow positive stage of their career are statistical anomalies. Much rarer than lottery winners and they are ALL a product of talent realized through incredible work and self-sacrifice (even for the super rich ones) combined with a good dose of luck to help them along.
     
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  12. 95spiderman

    95spiderman F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 1, 2003
    15,059
    ny
    i know nothing about racing careers but wonder if its the same for horse racing jockeys? thats a sport that costs fortunes to participate in so i imagine it would be easier for jockeys who have family or sponsorship money
     
  13. spicedriver

    spicedriver F1 Rookie

    Feb 1, 2011
    3,859
    "The Sport of Kings"

    Race horse owners are very wealthy, and really just do it as a hobby. They don't need money from a jockey.

    Auto racing team owners do it as a business. They make their money on what drivers pay them, minus what it costs to run the team.
     
  14. ronc52

    ronc52 Karting

    Aug 25, 2010
    132
    Full Name:
    Ron
    I agree with Ky1e, I raced SCCA Pro Toyota Atlantic series in the 90's and there was a variety of drivers with all types of backgrounds although very few make it ( some rare very talented ones) without a rich dad or a big sponsor from my experience
     
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  15. 95spiderman

    95spiderman F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 1, 2003
    15,059
    ny
    penske makes his money from drivers paying him? i dont get it. enzo ferrari back in the day?
     
  16. Nuvolari

    Nuvolari F1 Veteran
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    Sep 3, 2002
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    Rob C.
    Penske owns a multi-billion dollar empire which finances any short falls in sponsorship. They have always said that they don't take paying drivers but that's not to mean that the race team is a profitable enterprise.
     
  17. intrepidcva11

    intrepidcva11 F1 Rookie
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    Jan 12, 2009
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    Seth
    +1
     
  18. Jeffg11

    Jeffg11 Formula Junior
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    May 31, 2004
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    Jeff Grabowski
  19. spicedriver

    spicedriver F1 Rookie

    Feb 1, 2011
    3,859
    Yes. In fact they pulled out of some race because they couldn't find a sponsor for one of their drivers. I forget what year that was.
     
  20. 95spiderman

    95spiderman F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 1, 2003
    15,059
    ny
    so difference between racing and other sports is racing doesnt make any money on its own? what about the tv contracts for nascar, f1, indy, etc? that has to be huge numbers so who gets that if not team owners? and what about the advertising decals on the cars? i just dont get why racing is different from other sports?
     
  21. spicedriver

    spicedriver F1 Rookie

    Feb 1, 2011
    3,859
    Let's start with the venue. A football field is a little over an acre. Add grandstands, and parking, you could put the entire venue on 50 acres. An FIA grade racetrack is going to need around 600 acres.

    Then you've got the equipment. Pads, uniforms, footballs ? A couple thousand dollars at most. With racing you've got millions of dollars into the racing cars. It just cost a lot more to do it.

    TV rights are the biggest source of income for the various organizations. F1 is lot bigger, probably around $600 million/year. Then you've got sanctioning fees. Again F1 is the most @ around $30 million/venue. This is money that the venue has to pay F1 to bring a race there.

    Then you've got ticket sales, and official goods sales.


    For the teams, their main source of income is sponsorship. Although some racing teams don't bother with finding sponsors, because they let their paying drivers do it. Teams also get some money from the racing organization. This is very equitable in NASCAR. Then again, you have paying drivers.

    For the drivers, there is purse money. But this is usually negotiated away to the team. Drivers are allowed to do endorsements, and find personal sponsorships.

    Hamilton gets a big salary yes, but I would wager he's bringing more than that in sponsorship money to Mercedes.
     
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  22. 95spiderman

    95spiderman F1 World Champ
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    Nov 1, 2003
    15,059
    ny
    The business of sports is an interesting topic
     
  23. Solid State

    Solid State F1 Veteran
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    Feb 4, 2014
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    Maximus Decimus Meridius
    Becoming a pro requires mastering the amateurs. Being a great amateur requires living and breathing racing no matter the cost or risk and a boat load of talent. Luck will take you the rest of the way if its in the cards for you.
     
  24. Kenny94945

    Kenny94945 Karting

    Nov 1, 2003
    201
    Marin Calif
    Well, IMO even with money spent, driver weight is a factor.
    Ignoring Nascar LOL, a modern F1 driver I doubt could be champion if they weight 250 lbs or more.

    In my case, sadly, I would never finish on the podium in any series including Karts or gymkhana. :(
     
  25. Nuvolari

    Nuvolari F1 Veteran
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    Sep 3, 2002
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    Rob C.
    No different than any other competitive sport / activity. Have a look at any basketball or football player. Physical Genetics is normally the primary differentiator
     

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