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The (one and only) '0846' Debate Thread

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by El Wayne, Nov 1, 2003.

  1. muk_yan_jong

    muk_yan_jong Formula Junior

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    #8451 muk_yan_jong, Jul 23, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2016
    And how do we know all parties who need to be involved aren't? As public as she is, very few even knew something was happening somewhere between May and June.

    Maybe the silence from the keys is telling us something.(?) Could you imagine if everyone was brought together with the car and locked in to collate all of the details? Any outcome or information would be fascinating to discover and I am *sure* the oh yes moments would be worth it to every one of their legacies.

    That would be the one of the most compelling watches EVER for people like us.
     
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  3. Igor Ound

    Igor Ound F1 Veteran

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    Could this be the first time ever Ferrari declare to have built more cars than they actually did? ;)
     
  4. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    on the modern special editions usually it is the opposite. :D
     
  5. Igor Ound

    Igor Ound F1 Veteran

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    Someone should tell Jalopnik! ;)
     
  6. tongascrew

    tongascrew F1 Rookie

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    I am not sure about the math here but I am not sure Piero Ferrari was even born yet when these P series cars were built. I was in my late thirties. I am sure this is the last discussion he would want to get involved with. tonga's crew
     
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  8. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

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    He'd have been around 20 years of age. D.O.B 22.5.45. You should read some of those books you review lol!!
     
  9. Vincent Vangool

    Vincent Vangool Formula 3

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    #8457 Vincent Vangool, Jul 23, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2016
    You're not? and you are not making anything clear.

    ?... Most of us dispute that.

    Just the facts please.
     
  10. Vincent Vangool

    Vincent Vangool Formula 3

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    #8458 Vincent Vangool, Jul 23, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2016
    Patience...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSs6DcA6dFI

    Please re read all of John Houghtailings posts.

    From the way Hajduk is rumored to have spoke of your interaction, it appears your questioning is constructed to lead the witness.

    Truth does not come out of only looking at evidence your way to fit your narrative.

    Seriously, what is this about? You may want to do a re-write or delete all together.
     
  11. PAUL500

    PAUL500 Formula 3

    Jun 23, 2013
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    They are just the facts, would you like to add any other irrefutable ones to that list? and identify those people you also class as "most of us"?
     
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  13. Vincent Vangool

    Vincent Vangool Formula 3

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    #8460 Vincent Vangool, Jul 23, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2016
    "Facts" that have yet to be vetted with a response are not facts. Nor are they irrefutable, as they have literally not been given any time to be refuted.

    It is still a one sided conversation.

    Apparently the people at Ferrari, are part of most of us. And my guess is part of that group includes Forghieri? I hope Hajduk is in on it.

    One person posting a worthy discussion with pictures on the Inter-webs does not make fact, it makes an argument, and the other side of that argument deserves to weigh in, until then, there is no fact and you stating it as so, is incorrect.

    Looks like it is time to see what comes of Miura's theory. Good job on putting it all together.

    A lot can happen in the sands of time. My guess, Ferrari will deliver a good explanation of their discoveries.

    Maybe they even have pictures of the conversion of 0846. Who knows?

    With patience.... we shall see.

    But to be claiming that it is fact, that this is without question not 0846, is amateur hour.

    It may be time to for Piper to be a bit manly and come clean on the history of the chassis, while in his possession. How was a built, How was it modified? What damage occurred and how? Does the Chassis exactly match the other Piper chassis? Other than modifications to 0003/0846 for different engines?

    This will be interesting to see play out. One thing it is not though, is fact. And that is irrefutable.
     
  14. PAUL500

    PAUL500 Formula 3

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    So basically your answer is no you cannot on either count!
     
  15. Vincent Vangool

    Vincent Vangool Formula 3

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    #8462 Vincent Vangool, Jul 23, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2016
    Whatever you want to believe. Or, in your case, spin.

    I will wait to hear what Ferrari and others have to say versus jump to conclusions like you have.

    Sorry champ, but it appears the case is still open on this one, and any part of you proclaiming or praying that it is fact, based on a one sided conclusion, shows the amount of bias that you have always had.

    I realize Piper is your homeboy, but no reason to jump the gun on fabricating some "it's fact" conclusion before all parties have spoken.

    I am sure if Ferrari claims it's fact that the chassis is the remains of 0846, Miura will not just accept that it is fact. My guess is that is when Miura Vs. Ferrari will begin.

    Sorry but your final verdict irrefutable fact snake oil that you are trying to sell, it's fantasy.
     
  16. PAUL500

    PAUL500 Formula 3

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    #8463 PAUL500, Jul 24, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2016
    You really do spout utter tosh.

    Where is the spin in my post you commented on?

    Jim happily/knowingly bought Piper 003 from David Piper as Piper 003. Fact, not spin

    David Piper sold Piper 003 to Jim, and never claimed any association with 0846, fact not spin.

    Jim decided to remodel Piper 003 to externally/visually look like the original Ferrari 0846, fact not spin.

    From that point on the matter is grey to date, fact not spin.

    Oh and another fact, the initial reason Jim and Sal assumed the chassis of Piper 003 had links to 0846 was the ability for 003 to take both a P3 and a P4 engine, the recently posted period Daytona photos show that the Daytona winning 0846 chassis could only accept a P4 engine, the whole debate therefore falls at the first hurdle, explain that away with facts not theory?

    If you wish to refute any of the above then simply provide facts rather than muddy the waters all the time with your drivel, which is always based on iffs, buts, and maybes.

    Oh and its also very simple for you to list all the people you claimed are "most of us" so name names............

    Your response will as usual be incoherent babbling.
     
  17. donv

    donv Two Time F1 World Champ
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    How do you know this for sure? Were you there?

     
  18. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

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    This is a known and accepted fact by all concerned, even Mr Glickenhaus.
     
  19. piloti

    piloti Formula 3
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    It's written in Glick's PDF, and he was there!
    Nathan
     
  20. donv

    donv Two Time F1 World Champ
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    I didn't see a transcript of their conversation in there. Are you certain that the subject of 0846 never came up during the visit? Even in a joking, or "wink wink" sort of way?

    Those words were never uttered?

     
  21. piloti

    piloti Formula 3
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    Go and read the PDF. Then you tell us where Piper even mentioned 0846. If Piper had don't you think that Glick would have told us?
    Nathan
     
  22. donv

    donv Two Time F1 World Champ
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    I just looked. There isn't really a lot of detail about what they said in their conversations, and Jim mentions a picture with the handwritten notation of "P3/4" on it.

    So, again, you're 100% sure that "0846" wasn't mentioned in their conversations?

     
  23. Vincent Vangool

    Vincent Vangool Formula 3

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    #8470 Vincent Vangool, Jul 24, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2016
    If the chassis is 0846 then all of that is incoherent babbling.

    It being scratch built as 0003 is not irrefutable proof.

    Whatever Piper wanted to call it is up to him. What it is, is up for discussion.

    A. Scratch built by Piper it is indeed 0003.

    B. Not scratch built by Piper. Possibly 0846.
    1. He is not aware another chassis was used
    2. He knows it is 0846 and mum's the word.

    Oh, and by the way, it is 0003 under Piper, not 003.

    The jury is still out on if it is Piper 0003 or 0846. Many believe it is not originated as 0003 and that it indeed is 0846 from birth.

    Yes, we dispute that. As in it is being disputed currently. Frankly that is the whole point of this thread. For all intents and purposes until a two sided decision is made it is neither. It is the car formerly known as possibly 0003 or 0846.

    Patience. Why don't we let this progress to a real outcome where all sides weigh in and an actual vetted explanation is generally agreed upon.

    If that is incoherent it's not my writing. Maybe you should...
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXw2zpy_Pro
     
  24. Jeff Kennedy

    Jeff Kennedy F1 Veteran
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    Based upon all the other ways that Jim G. has manipulated this story, if there had ever been a mention of a viable 0846 connection by David Piper he would have been shouting this from the rooftops repeatedly.
     
  25. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

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    #8472 miurasv, Jul 24, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  26. jj2728

    jj2728 Karting

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    #8473 jj2728, Jul 24, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  27. ArtS

    ArtS F1 Veteran
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    Neat pics.

    Regards,

    Art S.
     
  28. PAUL500

    PAUL500 Formula 3

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    It was sold as Piper 003, purchased as Piper 003 and remains so until proven otherwise.

    You even start your babbling with "IF" what a classic! the usual "ifs, buts, maybes and what ifs" you always spout and have still not answered my latest questions/provided any facts, what a muppet.


     

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