The official replica/re-creation thread | Page 3 | FerrariChat

The official replica/re-creation thread

Discussion in 'Recreations & Non-Period Rebodies' started by WILLIAM H, Mar 18, 2004.

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  1. El Wayne

    El Wayne F1 World Champ
    Staff Member Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Aug 1, 2002
    18,043
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    L. Wayne Ausbrooks
    Not on the list for the historics. Have no idea about Pebble, though.
     
  2. Chaos

    Chaos Formula 3

    Sep 29, 2004
    2,346
    Cardiff. UK
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    Nick.
    can anyone shed some light on the chris rea commissioned 156 replica.

    i. who built it

    ii. how much involvement did the ferrari factory have.

    iii. was it made to original plans?
     
  3. Chaos

    Chaos Formula 3

    Sep 29, 2004
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    Nick.
    i think ive put this in the wrong forum sorry.
     
  4. El Wayne

    El Wayne F1 World Champ
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    Aug 1, 2002
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    L. Wayne Ausbrooks
    You might want to locate a copy of "Classic Cars" Jan '01 issue, which featured on article on the Rea replica. Hope that helps.
     
  5. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Oct 3, 2002
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    Andreas
    You also might want to get a copy of the movie "La Passione" in which it stars driving at Monza. Beautiful.
     
  6. Anteriore

    Anteriore Formula Junior

    Jan 4, 2004
    863
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    Ramon
    I do not know the answers to your first questions. What I know is that it was built as close to the original plans as possible. If I am not mistaken the car was built exactly the same as an original back in 1961, only this car is driven by a V6 engine from a Dino 206 or 246. At some point the car was sold to Dutch collector J. Bosch. Don´t know if he still owns it.
     
  7. macca

    macca Formula Junior

    Dec 3, 2003
    692
    I was lucky enough to see this car when it first appeared in public and talked to the people concerned.

    It was built by a man named Paul Harvey from a town called Shoreham in England, about 20 miles from the Goodwood circuit. He is a garage-owner (Western Road Garage) and well-known amateur racer, and a friend of Chris Rea; they both raced in Caterham 7's (the modern version of the Lotus 7).

    Ferrari had nil involvement; Paul and Chris were looking at photos of original sharknose chassis in books and thought 'that doesn't look difficult'. They worked out their own drawings, and everything was sourced in the UK - a Fiat Dino 206 engine (65deg), Hewland gearbox IIRC, alloy body, and wire wheels that are a copy of Borranis.

    After the car had appeared at quite a few events, being driven several times by Phil Hill, Ferrari borrowed to exhibit at a show in Italy, but I don't think they ever owned it. Bosch had it fitted with a 120deg V6 engine in the UK, can't remember by whom - Bob Houghton? - (although I don't know whether it is an original engine or a recreation).

    Phil Hill said that it felt like the original car, but with the 65deg Fiat engine fitted it didn't sound like it - but the build quality was much better!


    Paul M
     
  8. bigodino

    bigodino F1 World Champ
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    Apr 29, 2004
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    Peter den Biggelaar
    Bosch still owns the car, but due to other things (such as the 575 GTC racing programme) it seems this project is a bit on the back burner. Yes, they are rebuilding it, with a real 156 engine and transmission (I think obtained from Bardinon through Houghton) and correcting things. I've heard Ferrari allowed the car to wear the Ferrari insigna so it seems they don't mind this replica. I'm not sure if it's still at Houghtons but I don't think so.
     
  9. Miltonian

    Miltonian F1 Veteran

    Dec 11, 2002
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    Jeff B.
    Something I thought was fascinating about the article mentioned by Wayne in post #3. Quote:

    "I (Chris Rea) started talking to Paul Harvey, and took down some photos to show him. Amongst them was a picture of Willy Mairesse's burnt-out 156 after a crash at the 1962 Belgian Grand Prix. The picture shows the Ferrari's simple tubular chassis, and the positions of the 1.5 litre V6 Dino engine, exhausts, gearbox and inboard brakes. It's Sixties technology. Paul looked at it and said there's be no technical difference between a simple film prop and an exact copy. So we decided to go for it."

    Wow! So they were using a picture like this one for technical reference! (By the way, this was not a fatal accident).

    Edit: Oops, forgot the photo credit! From Robert Daley's "The Cruel Sport" 1963.
     
  10. macca

    macca Formula Junior

    Dec 3, 2003
    692
    Not Bob Houghton, but Terry Hoyle Race Engineering is who has been fitting the 120 degree V6 into the ex-Chris Rea replica. There are a couple of pictures on the gallery:
    http://www.racecar.co.uk/thre/

    Pity they didn't fit bigger fatter fuel tanks at the same time, to give it the podgy look of the original - contrast the real ones with the replica (pictures # 6, 13, 14, 50-52, 77,78 ) on this gallery:
    http://public.fotki.com/cafox513/ferrari/156_phil_hill_et_al/


    Paul M
     
  11. bigodino

    bigodino F1 World Champ
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    Yes, you're right. Senior moment on my side. Hoyle it is.
     
  12. macca

    macca Formula Junior

    Dec 3, 2003
    692
    #62 macca, Oct 25, 2004
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  13. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Great pictures, thanks!

    Do yourself a favor and get the movie "La Passione" in which these cars were in.
     
  14. 03402

    03402 Rookie

    Feb 4, 2004
    7
    Herejoin, different intresting pictures found on ferrari-enthusiastic.com
     
  15. Miltonian

    Miltonian F1 Veteran

    Dec 11, 2002
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    On the B&W pictures, are those the thinnest ventilated front disc brake rotors ever seen? Wowzer!
     
  16. zanti70

    zanti70 F1 Veteran

    Dec 9, 2003
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    #66 zanti70, Oct 27, 2004
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  17. Bryanp

    Bryanp F1 Rookie

    Aug 13, 2002
    3,799
    Santa Fe, NM
    Jan Biekens, owner of S. II Mondial 0536MD and a guy named Jim Stokes are creating another sharknose F1 car like Chris Rea's. Go to www.sharknose.net to see the project. awesome.
     
  18. trkevin

    trkevin Formula Junior

    Nov 3, 2003
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    K. Blommaert
    It's indeed an awesome project. They will rebuild the yellow Sharknose which was driven by Olivier Gendebien at Spa in 1961. Anyone pics of this car? Boudewijn?
     
  19. Boudewijn

    Boudewijn F1 Rookie
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    May 15, 2003
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  20. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

    Nov 20, 2002
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    I assume they are going to use a 206 or 246 Dino engine ... and thus it just will not be right. The torque curve of the bigger engine will always make the car feel wrong and IMO make the job pointless. I guess they could liner the block down and make a new crank, etc. and try and reproduce the correct peaky torque curve.

    I also noted on that site that he critises the 2 current replicas, saying they are very different (we are talking about Ferrari race cars here, so differences would be the norm as the cars were developed, etc., plus finding details on these cars is not easy). Surtes drove Chris Rea's replica not long ago and stated that it was very accurate and I believe has helped them (or somebody ... anyway ;)) since get the little details right and make it drive more correct ... which IMO is what it is all about.

    Amazing that the other 2 replicas have been able to source original 120 degree v6 engines ... just amazing.

    Anyway good luck to them :)
    Pete
     
  21. trkevin

    trkevin Formula Junior

    Nov 3, 2003
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    K. Blommaert
    As always Boudewijn, great pics. Thanks
     
  22. bigodino

    bigodino F1 World Champ
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    Hi Pete,

    are there TWO replicas? I only know of the ex-Rea now Bosch owned replica and that one is slowly getting more and more accurate. Which is the other one?
     
  23. Bryanp

    Bryanp F1 Rookie

    Aug 13, 2002
    3,799
    Santa Fe, NM
    bigodino, I also thought there was only one 156 recreation - the Rea car. But I found the following in the sharknose.net site:

    "During 2003 decision was taken to get the project from a dream into reality. At October 28th of that year two projects in the UK were looked at. First of all a semi-finished project of a Sharknose with a 1962 V120° engine and secondly the nice car which Chris Rea had built for his movie La Passione. This Sharknose is in a private collection and in this car too an original V120° engine was being installed.
    Without criticizing those beautiful cars they both looked very different."

    Has anyone here ever seen the other 156 recreation?

    Also, Pete, check out the "engine" part of the sharknose.net site: they say that the particular Gendebien car they are recreating had the 65 degree motor and not the 120. But they don't say anything about what the source will be for their motor.
     
  24. macca

    macca Formula Junior

    Dec 3, 2003
    692
    At the Goodwood Festival a couple of years ago I talked to Terry Hoyle who said he was working on a Sharknose replica using a 120deg engine - I understood him at the time to mean a different car to the Chris Rea one, but later found that he was putting a 120 engine in that one, so assumed that's what he'd meant.

    However......it seems there are two, though the newer one is a badly kept secret.

    As to engines; there were a huge number of 65deg engines (genuine racing engines, not Fiat Dino) made, ranging from 1500cc up to 3000cc, from 1957 to 1963, and then again from 1965 with the 166S/206S, and not all were in completed cars (I think certainly ones that Anthony Bamford owned as spares for his genuine 256 F1 of 1960 - though two were used to create replicas for Hasemi and Lodge - that's the car that went to Obrist, now with Ecclestone).

    The 196S of 1961-62 uses the same basic 65deg engine and gearbox as the Sharknose; also there's at least one original 1963 car with 120deg engine.

    Rea had to use a Fiat Dino 2.4L engine and Hewland gearbox; whether there are any spare 1961-62 gearboxes with the overhung clutch in the possession of the owners of the 196/246 Dino sports prototypes, I don't know.

    I was at Goodwood when Phil Hill first saw and drove Rea's car; he said it didn't sound like a real one, noticeably less sharp, but he must have OK'd it because he's driven it many times since.

    The 1963-64 'Aero' V6 F1 cars had new blocks cast for a semi-stressed installation; I don't know what happened to them. So did some 120deg engines survive? Probably. But can someone with enough money replicate them, or a 1961 gearbox? Certainly!


    Paul M

    (by the way, the car Gendebian drove at Spa was the same one in which Baghetti did the unique feat of winning his very first [and only] WC GP at Rheims)
     
  25. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

    Nov 20, 2002
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    Yes aware of that ... but they still need to obtain a 1.5 ltr 65 degree engine. If they stick a 206 or 246 engine the torque curve will so change the characteristics of what a 156 Sharknose would have driven like I can see NO point in building the car like that.

    But I will wait and see ... and yes I had never heard of the 2nd replica either, but read about it on that site.

    And as Macca has pointed out, I may have mistakenly mention Surtes (earlier post, unless both have driven it?) when I should have mentioned Phil Hill as the driver of Rea's replica. As noted using a 206/246 motor made the car feel and sound wrong by Hill.

    To me it is absolutely vital that they find a motor (or make one) that as close as possible matches the sound and torque curve of the original ... even if its base is non-Ferrari. You can always cast cam covers with Ferrari in them ...

    Otherwise what are you replicating? ... what the car LOOKED like. Who gives a fnck, we have squillions of pictures. If I was going to invest that much money I'd be after the driving experience not a 3D sculpture.

    Pete
     

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