The Myth of Tracking a Ferrari 458/488

I'm struggling to see the point of your post. Of course Ferrari's marketing is driven to showcase the excitement of the performance of the cars. But these cars are not the simply the result of Ferrari marketing - nor are they built by the marketing team - nor is my interest in them a result of that team. I don't buy a Ferrari because it's the fastest around the Nurburgring - or has the fastest 0-60 - or the highest lateral grip - or because I care about the top speed it's capable of. I buy it for the combination of things it does well and how it looks - and Ferrari recognizes that these are the people they are selling to.

Most Ferrari owners I know do not track their production Ferrari's - save for a random track event that a dealer or car club hosts. Even people I know with Speciales, Apertas, TDFs - they just don't do it. And while some may call that a shame since these models specifically are purpose-built track machines, you can still enjoy these models on the street - arguably as much as someone who tracks them. I'm not saying you can extract the same performance on the street vs the track, but let's be honest, who among us is pushing a $300k to $700k (in some cases $1mil+ depending on model) car to it's extreme on a race track other than a Ferrari test driver or Chris Harris/Jeremy Clarkson?

If all that mattered to me was which car is the best on a track, I'd buy a GT3 RS or any other Porsche GT car and be done with it - if it was what has the fastest 0-60, I'd buy a new Z06 for 20% off MSRP (at current discounts) and call it a day.

To me it's about how a car makes you feel - the sound, the handling, the response, the beauty of design - all which combine to form passion- ultimately delivering the feeling you get from being behind the wheel - these things matter, to me at least - and for these, I believe Ferrari delivers in spades in ways other manufacturers can't. Similarly - in areas Ferrari doesn't deliver, we are lucky to have other manufacturers who do - Porsche, BMW, Mercedes - they all cater to your preference and I'm a fan of all them - especially the Porsche GT cars.

Think about it - why do you think the older Ferrari's are worth so much (which can be beaten by a modern day Toyota Camry)? Or why stick cars have explosively increased in value (which are slower than the F1 and DCT trans)? It's about more than strictly track times my friend and hopefully the auto media and others get that message soon - I for one am tired of reading about how fast a car is around the Nurburgring.

 

^that.

If you want a track car buy a Porsche GT car or a viper ACR. Ferrari isn't it. Especially when you look at running costs. I'd rather have a racecar that also feels fun going the speed limit around town or going through chick fila drive thru

 

Interesting topic. I was going to post a thread about reliability on the track. I'm sure the experience itself is nothing but phenomenal but was wondering about wear and tear. I tracked a 2011 Porsche GT3 for two years and it was solid as a rock. Even the ceramics held up well despite numerous warnings on 6speed and Rennlist to watch out for fast depletion of the PCCB on the track. The GT4 I had was amazing but I sold it and now waiting for a 991.2 GT3 in 2017, which will be my next track toy.

That being said, I'm dying to take the 458 on the track but was concerned exactly about this. Sounds like you had to replace quite a few parts. What's best practice here? Do people prep the cars for the track? Maybe replace rotors and discs (Brembo steel brakes maybe) in advance and put the ceramics back on when the car becomes for sale? I wouldn't mind making a few track specific mods that will make attending such events more feasible.

Open to any suggestions..

Btw, Porsche just recently (meaning 2 years or so ago) changed the language in their terms and conditions so that the warranty also covers track related incidents. They had the same carve out provision, which is silly if you essentially sell street legal racing cars with a long history of motorsports success. Ferrari should to the same and stop being so difficult to deal with.

Is the Speciale more track ready (not referring to performance but durability)?

 

I suppose I'm a "casual" track guy when it comes to my 458. Just 1-2x a year, and often one of these is a dealer event. It's fine for that, but I wouldn't want to make tracking a 458 much more than that. Too expensive even if nothing breaks (usually nothing does, knock on wood), as brakes are expensive. If you want a track car, get a , V-8 converted Miata!

https://www.flyinmiata.com/V8/california/index.php

 

Not sure why anyone want to debate that a true track car is better for the track than a production street car of any make? As far as occasionally tracking a Ferrari 458, GO FOR IT!
No matter what car you track it cost money. The harder you drive it the more money it costs. I track my speciale at times and it is a blast. I know of speciales that have thousands of track miles on them and keep on going. It will lower the value but hey so will just driving them on the street but that is boring. And yes I have a dedicated track car and I understand the difference.

 

+1.

If anything, the SSC software in novice hands can be dangerous.

 

How about a corvette grand sport

 

The real myth is no one really wants a race care for the streets.

They say they do, but they don't. Ferrari knows this better than anyone.

They just won't tell you because it's all about emotion, not reason.

 

Speaking from experience, when your brakes overheat and you come into a hairpin at 90mph and the pedal hits the floor with no effect, you'll suddenly wish you kept those ceramic rotors on maybe? Brakes and tyres, oil - fuel, these are all consumables and if you're tracking you'll go through them faster - just seems something you sign up for when you get involved to me.


As for 'get yourself a proper track car' - we took a 650s and an R8 to a day recently and ran rings around all kinds of track-only things that showed up, and then drove home in the same cars in comfort. The McLaren being faster than the R8 didn't make too much odds, you learn about the respective cars pros and cons in comparison and it's great fun. They also look beautiful and the details never stop entertaining.

That's the point now right? These are supercars we can live with - sit in traffic, get bread and milk, hoon at 3am on a deserted road, or really stretch out at a race track.

I think the mistake is thinking that people relate the stats to the experience. It's fun debating facts and figures and comparing. People do that with all kinds of hobby kit - but when it comes down to usage, they're happy with a pretty broad bracket.

For that reason I don't really see the logic to the original post here. Someone on our track day was in a Suzuki Celerio, pretty sure they were also having a laugh and a great time too.

 

This ^, i know sort of ironic for me to say this with my 458CS, but ya'll know
I'm just a poser haha

btw she is almost going airborne with her diet, total BEAST, I guess I should bring
her to a track at least once in my lifetime

 

I've done a few pilota courses. The cars seem pretty robust and, y'know, when they are not yours and the instructor is urging you to go faster and get better, you push them. This generation of cars is so much more able to cope with the rigours of track work - they were literally being pounded around constantly for two days.

The 458 Challenge was a significant step over the 458 and Speciale in terms of track performance and feel. The whole thing was lighter, more raucous, with much higher grip and downforce and a geometry set-up that could make good use of that. But, if it were my own car, and I had to trailer it to the track, that might be a lot less interesting...

The 458 (and now the 488) went great on track. In terms of the key elements - grip, balance, power delivery, brakes, the experience was all there and still allowed you to enjoy track driving as it is meant to be enjoyed. So worth owning a 'normal' Ferrari and believing you have bought a road car that is really good on track.

The Speciale was a noticeable level up. Not at the challenge car level, but sharper, more focused, better handling, more 'extrovert' on the track. And you can still drive it to and from the track and in fact, have huge fun on the road too. Owners own a special Ferrari, designed for the road but really really good on track. The challenge car is the ultimate but the Speciale is most of the fun of that and driveable on the road. What's complicated? It's not just marketing.

 

Brilliant.
Perfectly stated.

 

I could not agree more completely!

 

Ok now I know your full of horse manure. It most certainly is. Do you own one? Because I do and have tracked it!

 

+100000

 

Yessss

 

I just don't get the point of comparing a Challenge car to a 458/488. They are 2 very different cars. Challenge is a dedicated race car which can not be driven on anywhere but tracks. In the right hands, it is way faster than many hyper cars on track, but then to run it as a hobby track day car, it is not very practical. You need at least couple of guys to take care of it, load the gas, change tires, etc. Plus, you will be needing special equipment to do so.

OTOH, in my experience a standard 458 is quite OK to track once in a while and it will last very nicely for a track day in terms of engine, brakes, etc if you take care of it well. They are much more reliable than many super sport cars I've seen on tracks. I've seen so many Porsches, Audis, Mercedes, GTR's die on the track due to engine and brake problems, but not many Ferraris.

I've been tracking my Speciale now for 2 years and never had a single problem on the track. Just get a good set of pads, track tires, brake fluid and you are all set. Of course you have to know how to properly warm up and cool down all the components and take care of your car before and after the track days. More importantly, learn how to drive on a track. Beginners and people who think they are fast but don't know about tracking will eat thru pads and discs in a few stints. When you learn how to brake, believe me they will last much longer than you think.

 

Ferrari challenge cars are still in a way semi amateur, if you want to go full race car, buy a Ferrari GT3 or GT2 from Michelloto. Crew now included ��

 

Really? I don't recall Ferrari ever tries to market any of their production cars as 'track' cars. Please point out the specifics if I am amiss. Ferrari always sells emotional appeals and is very good at that, especially in the Pininferina days. It seems to me that you bought a Ferrari for the wrong reasons and blame the car for it...tracking a spider, really?

 

I bought a 458 earlier this year, coming from no track experience, and buying this car primarily to enjoy..on the track. 10 months later, and 11 track days completed, here is my opinion.

The only way to truly feel the power, handling, and grip is on a track. Safely, and legally. It's that special feeling you get pushing the limits of the car that for me, has become an absolute addiction. Added to that the challenge is striving to improve lap times, and to a certain extent: competitiveness with other cars in the same category (street legal, >4.0 engine size, no mods, etc).

After all these track days, I can report that a stock 458 (no after-market parts), with stock street tires, is very competitive against other cars - in the same class. My stock 458 has gone faster around the track than Huracans, GTRs, GT3s, 911s, among others. Even a 488, although in that case it was clearly not the car making the difference. Maintenance: 1.5x set of brake pads, 1 set of tires, and 1x oil change, regular brake fluid bleeds. And that's it. Car still running strong.

So to the OP: owning and tracking a stock Fcar can be extremely rewarding on track. Comparing a track-prepared car (any) to a stock production car, is, no comparison. I've never driven a track-prepped car, but from what I've been told, it's a night and day difference. Sure. I believe it, 100%. But: that's too much hassling around for me, having to deal with towing the car on a trailer, engine mods, messing around with tires, settings, etc. It's nice to just drive the car from home to the track, have fun all day, and drive back home. Simple, fun, easy.

 

+1
Im at other end of spectrum with 15 yrs track days and 5 yrs instructing. Always used stock street cars like porsche, ferrari, gtr, lotus. I definitely do not push cars like im trying to qualify for pole position but still gives me enough thrill. Change tires, pads once/yr except with lotus which is only once every 2 yrs since so light. Hoping for 458 as next car