Interesting article on Road & Track... https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a35349952/the-misguided-mythology-of-ayrton-senna/ BHW
I think Prost and Senna both saw in each other a quality they wished they themselves posessed. Probably a reason they became good friends with mutual respect.
This documentary is factually inaccurate on many aspects. They especially completely missed the relationship between Prost and Senna. But making a subtle documentary by coming out of lazy manicheism is probably less selling.
I have seen both racing and as people - up close. The movie Senna is about 50%. Yes, he was a brilliant driver, and his car control was clearly one of the greatest ever. However I also saw him make stupid mistakes - in person.... Canada 1989 ran wide at the hairpin and hit the guardrail right in front of me... totally accidental... not paying attention. Monaco - 1988, Jerez 1986, etc.... He was not a God , but a man. Flawed as he got into faster machinery. For anyone who was not around during the Turbo years of the 80's - Prost was THE MAN. he had been at the tip of the championship since 1982 ... every year till Ferrari in 91. that is a decade at the top. He missed out on Championships with Renault in 83, Mclaren in 84, and again in 88. and with Ferrari in 90... we are not talking huge points deficits here either. Senna at Lotus was honorable and amazing. taking a car that was not the class of the field and winning with it. Senna in 1990 - 91 in the best car was miserable to watch - entitled, spoild, and selfish. I met him several times, have his autograph several times as well.... he was best when he was at Lotus, the worst at Mclaren... He is the one who brought this win or die mentality - push people off the road, get out of my way kind of thing. Prost was the last Gentelman driver... if you compare the records of the two Senna was involved is WAY more accidents on track that Prost. That being said Prost was not an angle either. He was a tough tactician, and politics was part of it. Senna clung to this notion that if you are the fastest person - everything everyone should bow to you... I was saddend when he died. its horrible to lose anyone. but when he was racing especially to the end I always thought of him being dangerous.. and not very honorable on track. I know this is not a popular opinion, but its what I saw - first hand. my preference is to think of the Senna at Lotus: Portugal in 85, Monaco in 1986 slamming around in the Lotus Turbo... or at Nurburgring in the Porsche 962 or Detroit in 87... those were masterful drives. when he got to McLaren it was dominance but in the best car ever made... it was a boring show between him and Prost. I remember being at Monza in 89, when Senna's car died... the crowd roared because Prost won and he was going to Ferrari the following year. Prost out of the car was aloof, and you almost never saw him in the paddock. He was like a mirage. I remember only meeting him only once at Silverstone... and it was by accident he was getting out of his road car in the parking next to us. Bonjour M. Prost... He waived and said bonjour. that was it. My best Senna story - Detroit 1986, Thursday night about 10 Pm. walking towards Greek town... here comes this guy with two girls, arm in arm, not that many people around, and then I notice this guy looks familiar.... its Senna! I just stare- he stares back and winks at me. Next day about 10:15 AM I'm down in the pits walking towards the Ferrari pit, Lotus is next to them, and there is Senna eating oatmeal, I look at him, and he winks at me - motions me to come over - "thanks for not making show last night! signed my race pass - back then you got a Photo Pass for photographers - and gave me a hat. Later that day - I was standing along the track - right at the track out very slow corner - you could grab some great shots there.. wearing my JPS hat, and he comes by misses a gear - and waves to me! sadly don't have that on film. that is the Senna i like to remember.
Great post spirot! I was always a Prost fan, which to some degree made me an anti-Senna fan. Not that I had ever anything against the man, it's just the Senna-Prost wars that put me onto one side of the camp. Never met Senna, but did meet Prost at some VIP event in Montreal. Very nice chap, could have easily spent more time with him.
One of the big misconceptions that gets repeated over and over again is that the film Senna is a documentary; IT IS NOT Senna is a dramatic film that uses a true story and real footage to tell the tale of a person with an angle biased towards its protagonist. It was never intended to be a factual portrayal of events nor offer a balanced perspective. Just to clarify this is not my opinion it is precisely what the film maker Asif Kapadia told me in person when we discussed the film at a showing in Toronto. If you approach the film as a documentary you will be disappointed, if you look at it from the dramatic perspective it is BRILLIANT
I share exactly your opinion about Senna and Prost. I didn't like Senna "do or die" attitude, and that he felt so entitled. Prost was a thinking driver in the Lauda mould, and I prefered him.
Prost said that he had done seven hours of recording for this film and that the director had completely disregarded what Prost had signed up for.
Senna wasn’t perfect but in terms of speed and pure talent nobody ever come close to him. And to say they McLaren he drove was the best car ever has not seen what Mercedes has created for now 7 years. That being said the McLaren was up there. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Correct however the concept of the film evolved over time and eventually that recording was not used. Apparently the first cut for the film was over 6 hours long. What staggered me about the film was some of the moments they had on film in the archives. The most amazing was Senna speaking to Roland Bruynseraede at Suzuka in 1990 asking to have pole moved to the clean side of the circuit. The amount of history in that moment was incredible.
from the article: I think it's unfair an inaccurate to define Senna by that quote - it was never a "mantra"...it was a throwaway line said when at his most defensive. You do not win 40+ races at the highest levels of the sport by being a one dimensional gap jammer. Senna also said this you know: “To win a championship you need more than anything a very clear mind to understand exactly when is the moment to be aggressive, when is the moment to be calculative, when is the moment to give everything you have, when is the moment to hold everything you have for another opportunity. That’s the difference between winning and losing”
Absolutely spot on. The 'not a racing driver if you don't go for a gap' quote has been just jack-hammered to death and massively mis-used. I'm so sick of hearing this quote from every Senna and racing expert that knows little more of what they saw in the movie Senna and on some YouTube videos. Good on you for recognizing the context in which it was said.
Unfortunately only in French, the seven parts about " Alain Prost confidences"on youtube are really interesting. Not only the Senna-Prost story.
I didn´t like the movie. It´s not just that it was very biased, but they missed most of the Prost-Senna thing. Come on, that was the best part!
I prefer Lauda over both actually- but yes, If I had to pick Senna it was early Senna. once he got to WDC... it was a bit insuffrable.
I would argue that Both Jim Clark and Jackie Stewart were far better than both Senna and Prost. just the numbers of races were so few back in those days. when you win a race at the Nurburgring by 4 Min... in fog, rain sleet... on thin treaded tires like he did in 68... and survived... Stewart is clearly THE man in F1. We are lucky enough to still have one of the greatest Champions ever still living... I dont think he gets enough respect.
I'm not sure if you can find the entire interview on youtube... but he was talking to Jackie Stewart and he pressed Senna about the number of accidents and mishaps he's had vs. how he drives... that is what drove out the go for a gap crap. i get it driving the turbo cars of the 80's were crazy ... and the NA cars of early 90's were some of the fastest wildest cars ever... but he still was way too wild.
It was not a throwaway line. Senna was under pressure from Prost... and he was making mistakes. that is what Stewart was pushing him on.... F-1 was not as safe as it is today when that interview was made. Senna afterward said he would never talk to Stewart again... which I think in the end they did talk in late 93- or 94... regardless, you dont have to define Senna about the quote - you can look at his races. Not just the ones he won, but from early on to the last ones... he made far more mistakes than Prost, or many of the other classic drivers. I will say that he was the first "ruthless" that was epitomized by Schumacher... I guess I'm just a gentleman racer... I like to win, but not at the cost of dignity. when I'm racing my Kart - I try to be courteous on track... its still dangerous and I'll push to keep a lead or ahead of someone but when I know they are faster - I let them by... its not right and only something bad can happen. But when I see someone bullying on the track... I have no problem calling them out.... Nobody wanted to call Senna out except Stewart.
That was the attitude of most drivers when racing was more dangerous; they knew when to yield, and that wasn't seen as weakness then. What I regret more than anything, after watching motor racing for nearly 60 years now, is the decline of sportmanship. I don't subscribe at all to the "win at all cost" mentality.
exactly - I think the best combo was the mid 80's ... it was still a bit clubby, but also professional.... today its so corporate and clinical...
I thought the film was just a bad film...lots of old ESPN poor quality video...and none of it giving me the feeling a seeing a whole season and all the tracks. So it didn't earn my respect as a racing movie. As a fan tribute to Senna, it was what it was. As a portrait of the rivalry/clash/battle between Prost and Senna, and a look at their seasons racing against each other, it felt as incomplete as the movie "Rush" in telling the Lauda/Hunt story...though "Rush" didn't pick sides and "Senna" did. For me, Senna seemed "obsessed" with winning, and that for me is a dangerous personality flaw...and one that I believe was ultimately responsible for the crash that cost him his life. He pushed too hard on cold tires, feeling Schumacher on his back...and that Schumacher was the future and that he, Senna, was going to be eclipsed. For intelligence as well as skill and speed, my equal favorites are Stewart, Prost, Lauda and Schumacher. It is always hard to compare different drivers from different eras, but I find Hamilton a better driver than Senna in many ways, including maturity. And I also sense a personality defect in Hamilton, different from Senna's but that still reminds me of Senna. Perhaps it is a frailty when under pressure. Just my opinion.
