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The Kobe Bryant crash

Discussion in 'AviatorChat.com' started by Juan-Manuel Fantango, Jan 27, 2020.

  1. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Dec 6, 2002
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    Bubba
    Don't forget the 15 minutes circling the zoo....they were waiting on ATC for clearance to proceed north into airspace??

    The 180 turn back makes no sense to me, but I think in flirting around with the cloud deck and 1800 feet, he became very afraid, as Rifledriver mentions, that if he had gone even lower and tried to follow the freeway (as the recording with ATC clearly shows) he would have snagged into high lines across the freeway path, at 1400 feet or lower?

    He was familiar enough with the area,I think that is what made him turn.....but yes, I think my faith in myself would fail at that point, to land it and say:
    "Sorry boss, the uber is on me..."

    Only once in my life have I heard a pilot do it (I was in the copilot's seat) but he said: "I need clearance to shuck and jive for weather".....and we were at the edge of the radar sweep and they certainly gave it to him...both sides acknowledging technical limitations. We were WAY up trying to clear the top of a thunderhead, not sure what the ceiling of a Beechcraft Baron is but we were getting there...we did have a nice picture of the storm we were in, on the radar on board.
     
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  2. furmano

    furmano F1 World Champ
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    Saw this video about IIMC, Inadvertent Instrument Meteorological Conditions.

    It's a dangerous situation to get into and if you're not trained specifically to get out of it, the odds are not in your favor.

    -F

     
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  3. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Dec 6, 2002
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    That's really interesting....I kept thinking if he had said "Screw it" and popped back up to 4000 feet, they would have seen him and handled him in.

    Interesting about the Called Emergency helping to keep your pilot credential....
     
  4. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Jul 19, 2008
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    Terry H Phillips
    Flying into IMC is something every aircrew who flies low level will eventually run into. Not sure why a helicopter solution would be any different from an airplane. Climb until VMC, talking to ATC if it requires flying into controlled airspace, or even if it does not. Descending into uncontrolled IMC over unknown terrain with a VFR only aircraft is a sure fire way to get killed.
     
  5. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran
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    Nov 29, 2003
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    Well, I don't know quite how to respond to that statement. It's quite humbling. One has no idea what their status is in a large group like this forum. All I have attempted to do is to participate and learn from from those who have accomplished far more than I have. Where else could a 94 year old enjoy the constant invigoration of being actively engaged with those who share the same passion? I look forward to every day when I check in to AvChat to see what is going on. I'm no longer competent with the modern flight technologies so I try to remain silent but I like to share the 80 + years of my messing around with aviation even though it is irrelevant in most instances. I'm fortunate and thankful to have this association .
     
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  6. FL410guy

    FL410guy Karting

    Apr 18, 2015
    56
    Fort Lauderdale
    I think we can all agree that since none of us were there in this guys shoes, to speculate is exactly that - speculation.

    I’m a CFII, MEI and check airman for a major air carrier, and lm in no position to second guess or Monday morning QB what this pilots decision making chain was- and i won’t. None of us have ever been in his shoes, so let’s all agree it’s a tragedy- one we all wished hadn’t happened.
    But regardless of how he ended up where he did doesn’t unlock the privilege for us to second guess what he did. Period.
    And for those who think they know better, I’d invite you along a flight in a sim half as challenging and I’ll promise you a ride you’ll never forget, but that’ll you’ll walk away from, alive and humbled ... at least I hope.


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
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  7. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran
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    Nov 29, 2003
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    I'm reluctant to admit it but I flew into a trap years ago when I was trying to return to SEA years ago. Leaving Redmond, Ca. in iffy weather I attempted to fly north up the Sacramento Canyon to Dunsmuir, Ca. As the flight progressed up the canyon , the weather got worse and all we could do was to fly with the sides of the canyon to our left so that we could maintain contact with terror fermer. Contact was intermittent with shreds of clouds hiding the terrain and once in a while I could see the bases of steel transmission towers sliding by. I elected NOT to attempt a 180 because I would have lost contact with the terrain and stability. Somehow, the light got much brighter near the top of the canyon and it looked like we were up and out of the soup. Then right at Dunsmuir a dense cell thick with rain descended and we were blind. I was flying a light plane with minimal instruments and I immediately established a compass heading, a slight rate of climb, centered the ball, and established 70 mph. And locked those values in my eyes. Any change in them was adjusted to what I had set as the original value. It was like flying in a white pillow. When we broke out I was slightly off course to the east, right wing down a bit, but rate of climb the same. The scariest thing that I had ever experienced. I don't know how long we were in the squall but it was quite a while because we were well passed Dunsmuir when we were in the clear. A lesson learned that I should and could have waited for better weather.
     
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  8. jcurry

    jcurry F1 World Champ
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    If the FAA and NTSB can second guess and Monday morning QB then so can those of us on an internet chat forum, many of whom are pilots. Seriously, discussing incidents is a means to learn from other peoples mistakes, regardless of how tragic the event is. If it prevents others from repeating those mistakes then there is some good that comes from the discussion.
     
  9. Echo Charlie 1131949ZULU

    Sep 11, 2017
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    Edward C. Chewning
    Was there no open area for a helicopter to land ?
     
  10. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran
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    Typo. Should have said Redding, not Redmond.
     
  11. donv

    donv F1 World Champ
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    There were lots of open areas. Heck, there was a perfectly good airport (VNY) with rental cars and limos a few miles behind them.
     
  12. absostone

    absostone F1 Veteran
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    Mr Parks, are you really 94 yrs old? If so Bless you
     
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  13. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran
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    I came on line in 1926, the same year that the Kelly Act initiated the Civilian Airmail Contracts. I still remember at three years old seeing DH-4's and Boeing Mod 40's flying over. A few years later there were Curtiss Condors, Ford Tri- Motors and then Boeing 247's. First flight in 1935 was in an Aeronca C-2 and after that many other flights as an airport bum kid in things like Waco 10's, Travel Air's, and anything else that they would let me get into. I have vivid memories of having oil and hot water spraying back into my face when I dared look out of the side of the cockpit so that I could see the rocker arms dancing. Then in 1938 I was allowed to join the gang at a little dirt strip airport where I was befriended by some wonderful people who flew crop dusters and and private airplanes that included more modern Waco's and new Stinsons. From there it was WW2 and the end of the good times there. I didn't fly again until I was out of the service and got my license. That allowed me to fly some of the old airplanes that I had rode in as a kid after they had been pulled out of storage. That was the best time of my flying life. And to put icing on the cake in the 60's I got to fly some of the same vintage again at Thun Field when I was in my late 30's .
    I'm just a bit short of 94 but a few months doesn't matter.
     
  14. absostone

    absostone F1 Veteran
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    Fantastic to read that . You have a sharp mind , better than mine and Im half your age. But its obvious you've always had a sharp mind . fantastic
     
  15. kylec

    kylec F1 Rookie
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    Jun 9, 2005
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    Buy his book. It’s a good read.
     
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  16. Fave

    Fave F1 Rookie
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    Definitely a good read!
     
  17. absostone

    absostone F1 Veteran
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    Title?
     
  18. Jaguar36

    Jaguar36 Formula Junior

    Nov 8, 2010
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    Cherry Hill, NJ
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  19. thecarreaper

    thecarreaper F1 World Champ
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    Honor and a Privilege to read your post all these years Sir.
     
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  20. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran
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    Wouldn't it be fun if I said, " Oh, I just made all this up." I guess that I have been blessed with this longevity thing and I don't pay much attention to it. I keep going going as usual as long as the machinery lets me. Some people are amazed that I'm still driving and that is something that surprises me because I drive like I always have, no tickets, no fender benders, no complaints from other drivers. Of course, it's pretty safe just going up and down my driveway.
     
  21. absostone

    absostone F1 Veteran
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    Some people age and fall apart mentally
    Lucky for you that didn’t happen it seems. There is a family member on my wife’s side who is about your age and he comes up with better conversation than I do. He still drives fast too
     
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  22. Bobby Butler

    Bobby Butler Rookie
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    Jan 1, 2020
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    About 6 or 7 years back, a S76 went in at 150+ knots here in south Louisiana on a clear day. Year or so later report determined it was a bird strike. A red tail hawk broke thru windshield, hit the throttle quadrant. Insufficient altitude precluded any recovery attempt that pilot may have attempted.
     
  23. BJK

    BJK Formula 3

    Jul 18, 2014
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  24. Nurburgringer

    Nurburgringer F1 World Champ

    Jan 3, 2009
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    Here again: 160 knots (184mph) descending at 4000 fpm (67 feet per second)?! That sure doesn't seem like prudent (or controlled?) flight in heavy fog at low altitude.

    "Radar/ADS-B data indicate...the aircraft reached 2,300 feet msl (approximately 1,500 feet above the highway, which lies below the surrounding terrain) and began a left turn. Eight seconds later, the aircraft began descending and the left turn continued. The descent rate increased to over 4,000 feet per minute (fpm), ground speed reached 160 knots"
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  25. Innovativethinker

    Innovativethinker F1 Rookie
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    #100 Innovativethinker, Feb 8, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2020
    Absent mechanical failure could the pilot have become incapacitated? That decent seems inconsistent with The rest of his flying.
     
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