The FIA Stewards Speak Out ! | Page 5 | FerrariChat

The FIA Stewards Speak Out !

Discussion in 'Other Racing' started by FLATOUTRACING, May 29, 2006.

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  1. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Oct 3, 2002
    48,581
    @ the wheel
    Full Name:
    Andreas
    This might help:
    http://www.visionf1.com/

    Looking forward to that yacht picture.

    PS: I'm slowly building up my support and rooting for the iceman. By the time he sits in a Ferrari in November I'll be all psyched and ready to go. :)
     
  2. BMW.SauberF1Team

    BMW.SauberF1Team F1 World Champ

    Dec 4, 2004
    14,244
    Cool website!

    Okay, bold font for the word "passes" means on the track.

    Lap 1: MS passes Monteiro, Massa, Montagny, and Sato moving up to P18. 4 passes on track

    Lap 2: MS passes Speed and Albers moving up to P16. 2 passes on track

    Lap 20: MS passes Button moving up to P15. 1 pass on track

    Lap 24: MS passes Rosbeg while Rosberg pitting, moves up to P14.

    Lap 28: MS passes Fisi while Fisi pitting, moves up to P13.

    Lap 37: MS moves down to P19, 1 lap down, while pitting.

    Lap 39: MS passes Massa while Massa pitting, moves up to P18.

    Lap 40: MS passes Albers moving to P17. 1 pass on track

    Lap 40: MS passes Speed moving to P16. 1 pass on track

    Lap 40: MS passes Ralf while Ralf pits, moving to P15.

    Lap 41: MS passes JB on the track again moving to P14. 1 pass on track

    Lap 41: MS passes NH while NH pits moving to P13.

    Lap 44: MS passes JV moving to P12. 1 pass on track

    Lap 49: Safety car. Rosberg, Liuzzi, Fisi pitting and are pasesd by MS. MS moves to P9. Behind FA who lapped him.

    Lap 50: MS moves to P8 after gaining a lap on Webber's retirement.

    Lap 52: MS moves to P7 after gaining a lap on Kimi's retirement.

    Lap 59: MS moves to P6 after Klien's transmission fails.

    Lap 65: MS and GF join lead lap after gaining a lap back on FA. No position gain.

    Lap 69-72 : MS passing up blue-flagged cars including JV, Montagny, Speed, Albers to gain on RB who served a drive-thru penalty.

    Lap 73: MS moves to P5 after Trulli has hydraulics problems.

    Lap 78: MS close behind RB, but doesn't pass. Both pass JB who was blue-flagged. Finishes in 5th place.

    In summary, MS made 11 passes for position on the track. Passed 8 pitting cars for position while he stayed out. Passed 4 cars for position as a result of their mechanical failures. Of course he passed some of the cars twice because he didn't start 29th if you add up his position passes :p

    He passed:
    Villeneuve, Monteiro, Massa, Montagny, and Sato once.
    Speed, Albers, and Button twice. All of these for position on the track.

    Very good part on Michael's part, especially at Monaco. I just needed to see the facts to back up an opinion. Something Ney was trying to do, but didn't really help :p

    Edit: This is off topic, but I watched this past Sunday's Top Gear episode and Jackie Stewart was on. His goal was to get James May, one of the show's hosts, to lower his lap time at a track by 20 secs by giving him tips. Really cool segment if none of you have watched. I can't remember if he was ever a guest on their show before. I know Mark Webber was last year and they had his FW27 there and he did a hot lap in a econobox. Nigel Mansell was there, too, I think. I didn't want to start a new thread until I figure out how to post all the videos.
     
  3. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Oct 3, 2002
    48,581
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    Andreas
    Thanks for all the work of doing this analysis. Good stuff!

    So MS didn't only pass a bunch of people, he even passed folks who know what they're doing: Villeneuve (notoriously wide car) and Button (twice! yikes!)

    Awesome drive! That must have been one of his best races of all times I'd say. Or actually anybody's career.
     
  4. BMW.SauberF1Team

    BMW.SauberF1Team F1 World Champ

    Dec 4, 2004
    14,244
    No problem. It was interesting seeing MS on that animated program behind Button and Villeneuve for such a long time. It must've really made him mad. He got close so many times. Something which the FIA cameras unfortunately didn't show much of. I only recall a little bit of coverage MS's hunt on JV and JB. Very good drive MS in recent times I can remember, definitely!
     
  5. speedy_sam

    speedy_sam F1 Veteran

    Jul 13, 2004
    5,559
    TX
    Full Name:
    Sameer
    Agree. One of his Top 10 races for sure but there are much better races IMO. Anyway, great performance but I think we are agreed that there are a few other drivers capable of the same in the grid today.
     
  6. Ney

    Ney F1 Veteran
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    Apr 20, 2004
    6,629
    BMW:
    Sorry to miss some of the discussion, had to get some work done!
    We don't disagree all that much. The Trulli thing was just a minor thing, no doubt he was no longer running in the race.

    I agree with you that KR's pass at last years Japan was fantastic, as was the pass of MS and Zonta by MH at Spa, as was Fangio chasing down Collins and Hawthorn at the Nurburgring in '57. Without a doubt those passes and battles make for legends. I too would rather see the pass on the track, but given the technical nature of F1 these days, much of it is done with pit strategy. I find that it adds a greater team element to the sport, while detracting from the on course contest of speed. I can't fault the team for making the easier pass in the pits, if you have a driver that can run fast on the in and out laps.

    I had been reading page after page of "MS is God" vs. "MS is a cheating S**T who has no business driving F1" postings which seem to lack much analysis although lots of passion. I then came across your post which asked a valid question, but hadn't looked it up yet, so I fired off a pithy post.

    No problem on the "best Performance" comment. I was responding to tifosi12's "celebration of the impossible". I though MS drove a good race given the position he started from and might have been able to win it starting from P2. Lessor drivers would have cruised around and not made much ground having been demoralized by starting last.

    Your post #102 of the passes was what I would have liked to do. Bravo!

    Now where's that pic of Kimi?!

    Edit: Tifosi12 - very cool web site! You can watch the race like the whole field is slot cars!
     
  7. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Andreas
    The real value of what MS achieved can be seen by comparing him to such a lesser driver: The guy in the other Ferrari. Look how he did in the race starting from essentially the same place.
     
  8. BMW.SauberF1Team

    BMW.SauberF1Team F1 World Champ

    Dec 4, 2004
    14,244
    Exactly! I can't wait to see Kimi at Ferrari (hopefully already confirmed). If MS stays, that will be one hell of a team to try to get the CC from let alone compete with those two for the DC.

    Ney, hopefully no hard feelings. I'm glad you actually replied to my initial post. No one else bothered to reply so my question would've gone unanswered and dead. Luckily, tifosi12 posted that awesome website so that our discussion could be resolved. I really wish the FIA and FOA really gave a crap about stuff like this. I would be really interested if they posted facts like that instead of me spending 30+ minutes per driver, lol. That's on reason why I love the NBA so much. They give a lot of in depth statistics and rank players in the leaque.

    Edit: I had to burn 5 gigs of space off of my hard drive a few hours ago to make space for the race. It's from ITV and 1.4 gigs. Quality should be good and hopefully I'll have Kimi's pic posted by tomorrow afternoon-evening. :)
     
  9. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jun 3, 2006
    25,447
    I know it's a silly thing to say, but from a spectator's point of view, it's more spectacular to watch a GP where MS starts with a handicap. Let's face it, when his car was 'head & shoulder' above the opposition (up to 2005), GPs were not that exiting: MS used to start from pole, romp away and control the race. Starting from the back, probably with 'red mist' too, we can really see the skill and aggression. The guy has a lot of driving talent and would catch up most of the field before half race anyway, leaving him the second half to really humiliate most of the rest.
    But I'm still unsure about the Rascasse incident. Maybe not a Ross Brawn strategy, but MS looked like he wanted to exploit of of his rare 'cock-ups'. Quick thinking that backfired. Never mind.
     
  10. ricksb

    ricksb F1 Veteran

    Apr 12, 2005
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    You must not like Senna either....he probably caused you a lot of conflict for having a rooting interest in a sport that celebrated a man who boldly cheated.

    To top it off, both he and Schumaker are considered two of the all-time greats of F1.
     
  11. BMW.SauberF1Team

    BMW.SauberF1Team F1 World Champ

    Dec 4, 2004
    14,244
    William, if I was an F1 driver and if I could seriously get pole position every time and know that my car would not fail and that I'd win every GP, I'd do a reverse grid on myself. I'd probably only qualify in the top 16 and not even run in the second session. Make it a little challenging :) I don't think any F1 driver would do that now even if they were that good. Sponsors would be angry!
     
  12. DGS

    DGS Six Time F1 World Champ
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    May 27, 2003
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    DGS
    Like this?: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4U6lEE_fGM ;)
     
  13. Senna1994

    Senna1994 F1 World Champ
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    He is in my opinion still the best driver in F1. I think that when MS starts from behind it really shows that incredible talent he has. He will run for the championship this year and might just pull it out at the last race.
     
  14. 410SA

    410SA F1 Veteran

    Nov 2, 2003
    8,511
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    A
    You are absolutely right. Cheaters are unethical at best and criminal in fact if their cheating is for gain at the cost of someone else. A plainer way to put it is called stealing. People go to jail for stealing what belongs to others.

    The financial incentives to cheat are obviously a driving force in all of these situations where world class athletes, like Barry Bonds and MS need to stoop to illegal tactics to win. Human nature is so predictable. Given enough incentive I guess most humans would cheat, but being humans they would certainly find ways to rationalize their behavior. I'm pretty sure MS is convinced he did nothing wrong. That's the mentality of cheaters. They believe their own lies fervently.
     
  15. Senna1994

    Senna1994 F1 World Champ
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    Pertectly quoted.
     
  16. Ney

    Ney F1 Veteran
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    Apr 20, 2004
    6,629
    BMW:
    No hard feelings at all. It is interesting to see the information that comes out of the discussion - ie. visionf1 site. If Ferrari can continue to produce a competitive car, KR will be a force. If MS is still at Ferrari, it will be a very interesting year.
     

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