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the F40 is undervalued

Discussion in '288GTO/F40/F50/Enzo/LaFerrari' started by ross, Jun 1, 2019.

  1. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    yes, i hear you.
    there are basically 1315 different price points.
    i was only informing the site about a change in insured values according to one of the bigger classic car insurance companies, which i believe is fairly credible.

    and the forex point is well made.
    a year ago $1.2 mil was about 1.1 mil euros, whereas today $1.2 mil is 1 mil euros......but $1.6 mil is 1.3 mil euros :)

    so some of the euro cars that came over here may find their way back to where they came from.

    as regards your example above....an f40 sat for 20 years will easily run to 100k + to rehab, maybe more depending on what they find.
     
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  3. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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    Of course, and the new Swiss owner is absolutely willing to spend 100 or more grand or whatever it takes to make it perfect again. No worries. It is now in the hands of a super experienced Ferrari enthusiast that knows every nut and bolt and has the deep pockets (should I say FU money?) to do whatever is needed.

    Marcel Massini
     
  4. Karimsaid

    Karimsaid Rookie

    Oct 2, 2014
    33
    Could you please elaborate on the reasons why are early cars so much more valuable In your view. For example I have a french-delivered Non-both car which is the ~ 25th to 30th produced (June ‘88 - #77626 ) whilst Enzo Ferrari was still alive and I am clinging to it as I had it for almost two decades with sixteen service stamps (all from Ferrari dealers) in the book and meticulous maintenance (eg two new original tank replacement during my ownership and 4 large history files). I drove it regularly to trips from the UK to Europe with 29k km on the clock. I wonder how such a genuine car fares against the low-mileage, many short term owners/investors, which seems to be the sought-after ones?
    Merci d’avance.
     
  5. joe sackey

    joe sackey Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Here's the link showing what Hagerty has ascribed for the 1991 F40 currently: https://www.hagerty.com/apps/valuationtools/1991-ferrari-f40

    What they are saying is, today F40s are worth between $960,000 to $1,600,000, and, they are saying the average value is $1,200,000.

    Their data takes account of recent auction high-value sales as seen if you scroll down to the bottom of the page.

    Here's a breakdown of there criteria, embedded here for posterity:

    #1 Concours $1,600,000
    Condition #1 vehicles are the best in the world. The visual image is of the best vehicle, in the right colors, driving onto the lawn at the finest concours. Perfectly clean, the vehicle has been groomed down to the tire treads. Painted and chromed surfaces are mirror-like. Dust and dirt are banned, and materials used are correct and superbly fitted. The one word description for #1 vehicles is "concours."

    #2 Excellent $1,350,000
    #2 vehicles could win a local or regional show. They can be former #1 vehicles that have been driven or have aged. Seasoned observers will have to look closely for flaws, but will be able to find some not seen by the general public. The paint, chrome, glass and finishes will all appear as excellent. No excessive smoke will be seen on startup, no unusual noises will emanate from the engine. The vehicle will drive as a new vehicle of its era would. The one word description for #2 vehicles is "excellent."

    #3 Good $1,200,000
    #3 vehicles could possess some, but not all of the issues of a #4 vehicle, but they will be balanced by other factors such as a fresh paint job or a new, correct interior where applicable. #3 vehicles drive and run well, but might have some incorrect parts. These vehicles are not used for daily transportation but are ready for a long tour without excuses, and the casual passerby will not find any visual flaws. "Good" is the one word description of a #3 vehicle.

    #4 Fair $960,000
    #4 vehicles are daily drivers, with flaws visible to the naked eye. The chrome might have pitting or scratches, the windshield might be chipped. Paintwork is imperfect, and perhaps the body has a minor dent. Split seams or a cracked dash, where applicable, might be present. No major parts are missing, but the wheels could differ from the originals, or other non- stock additions might be present. A #4 vehicle can also be a deteriorated restoration. "Fair" is the one word that describes a #4 vehicle.


    As any professional who specializes in these cars will tell you (myself included) most F40s are not anywhere close to concours (even though their owners might perhaps understandably think they are), that description applies to @ 5% of the cars extant, the vast majority of F40s are somewhere between Fair and Excellent with values as stated above.

    As always, data is open to interpretation, depending on one's point of view, but it can always be presented in an unbiased way.
     
  6. Senna1994

    Senna1994 F1 World Champ

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    Joe, always so eloquent and spot on.
     
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  8. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    thats great - i love it when they are rehabed and driven by people with the means to do so.
    can you say where in switzerland?
     
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  9. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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    ???
    He copy and pasted 90 percent of the response from another source!
     
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  10. joe sackey

    joe sackey Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Correct, I copy & pasted for the reason I mentioned in my post, from the source that was referred to here https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/posts/147505298/ , for the purpose of sharing the full context of what that source is saying about F40 values.
     
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  11. Karimsaid

    Karimsaid Rookie

    Oct 2, 2014
    33
    Thank you Joe for your time & response. Regarding Hagerty, not sure what to make about they valuing the Enzo higher than the F50
     
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  13. Euroryno

    Euroryno Formula Junior

    Feb 2, 2015
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    Comments / thoughts on Bonham’s auction F40 with 17,000km passing in at £810,000 (or possibly £820,000 - it was 4am here in NZ so my memory is a little foggy)...


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
  14. joe sackey

    joe sackey Four Time F1 World Champ
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    I haven't seen that yet, perhaps their F50 numbers are affected by the sale of the high-mileage black F50 104799 which sold for a lower value, whereas most Enzos that sell are lower-mileage cars without and incident history, I'll have to check it out.
     
  15. joe sackey

    joe sackey Four Time F1 World Champ
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  16. Euroryno

    Euroryno Formula Junior

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  17. joe sackey

    joe sackey Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Same guide range as in the auction.
     
  18. willcrook

    willcrook Formula 3

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    it's wonderful you've owned it so long and used it as intended :)
     
  19. willwork04

    willwork04 Formula 3
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    I love the F40. It is definitely on the short list. I believe values will go up from here. However, I believe they will plummet one day. Why? No one in the younger generation knows how to drive stick. I am 34 and I know "car guys" my age that don't have a clue how to drive a manual transmission. I would love to know what percentage of car guys in their 20s know how to drive stick right now. I bet it is extremely low. My 18 year old brother in law "loves cars" but has no clue how to drive manual.
     
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  20. Caeruleus11

    Caeruleus11 F1 Veteran
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    You can learn, it isn’t hard.

    Yes the generational changes are always a factor. But, did you know vinyl outsold CDs last year?

    In the future I am sure old stick shift Toyotas won’t be of interest to most, but, there will be those who still seek out an F40 and they will be interested to learn how to drive it. Knowing how to drive it will ADD to the appeal... just my opinion.


    Sent from my iPad using FerrariChat
     
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  21. PAUL500

    PAUL500 Formula 3

    Jun 23, 2013
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    They will never plummet, if that was the case then old steam and Brass cars would now be worthless for the same reason, as that generation of original drivers is long gone.

    Few will be driven in time though, they will just be a commodity, a safe haven for funds, and simply a piece of static art.
     
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  22. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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  23. MirageJHU

    MirageJHU Rookie

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  24. joe sackey

    joe sackey Four Time F1 World Champ
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  25. joe sackey

    joe sackey Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Never say never, but I agree they will always be desired.
     
  26. Trax

    Trax Formula 3

    May 26, 2005
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    Is that one of the first French cars?
    I own 79284 and got the impression from Charles Pozzi that it was one of their early cars, delivered Jan 89, car 66
     
  27. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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    79284 is not car #66 but body number 66.
    Build start for 79284 was 11 November 1988, completion date 19 January 1989. Engine #13498, gearbox #66.
    There were at least seven other F40s delivered earlier to Ferrari West Europe (Pozzi).

    Marcel Massini
     
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  28. Karimsaid

    Karimsaid Rookie

    Oct 2, 2014
    33
    Hello Douglas, yes one of the first cars delivered to France. Comparing to the dates given for your car, the production of my car started 5 months before yours. You can go to any Ferrari dealer in the UK and ask them to check the Ferrari Modis system. They can print you a page which will some data on your car (e.g. engine #, production start & finish and delivery dates, warranty start & finish, delivery dealer, current owner...)
     
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