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the F40 is undervalued

Discussion in '288GTO/F40/F50/Enzo/LaFerrari' started by ross, Jun 1, 2019.

  1. rmolke85

    rmolke85 Formula Junior
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    #226 rmolke85, Sep 23, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2019
    When people say find a clean car, going on 30 yrs old, if the suspension, brakes, fuel delivery systems, electronics, all bushings and rubber mounts have not been replaced,rebuilt, then all you have is a shiny thing prone to fires and unsafe to drive fast. Low mileage will only get you so far going forward with these cars. The goal is to find an HONEST car in great condition, or an honest car you can put in great condition. Euro cars for US guys are the deals in the supercar arena IMHO. Euro area is in trouble economically compared to here so those deals are out there.

    Also how many people actually check the body numbers on these cars? The front rear clips and doors are all numbered but no one seems to really point that out car to car. Does Classiche take note of this as a requirement to receive certification? I would think having an original body is as important as a gearbox/trans. It certainly is with other Ferraris. There still seems to be things the general public might need to learn about these cars as they become true classics and the good cars are separated from the cars with needs.
     
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  3. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    the total number of all the 275gtb's is right around half of the number of f40's, which is why i used that as an example.
     
  4. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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    i get it! imagine what f40s wld trade it if they made 600 of them!
     
  5. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    agreed.
    i foresaw this years ago, and bought my 'high' mileage euro example with 12k miles, a tubi, bigger brakes, new turbos, and a fire suppression system, on purpose. :)
     
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  6. joe sackey

    joe sackey Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Agreed.

    At this point most F40s I encounter have needs, many with significant deferred maintenance.

    The car is a precision instrument of speed, a racing machine for the road, and you really have to make sure it is set up optimally for your sake and that of other road users.

    You guys have the right attitude and you are doing God's work bringing 80715 back to the best shape of it's life!

    Bravo, hope to see it soon.
     
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  8. rmolke85

    rmolke85 Formula Junior
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    Thanks Joe! Hoping to show at Cavallino but wont push it. Ill be out to see the DD and will be sure to let you know. Would love to catch up.
     
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  9. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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    the euro car bladders are a pia though - i think in the USA, US cars will maintain premium to EU.
     
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  10. Tenney

    Tenney F1 Rookie
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    Likely fewer 275gtb's than F40's were mothballed at birth, though guessing a delivery-mile 275gtb might still bring a premium over even a well-maintained and carefully-driven gtb of like-provenance.
     
  11. rmolke85

    rmolke85 Formula Junior
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    I will say this, 80715 had original bladders (1989) when we changed them this year. Driven many many miles that way and glad she survived.....

    They aint that hard to change are are central to the charm of race car for the road. I would not have it any other way!!

    Also my understanding is that the US cars not registered in California now cannot be registered there?
     
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  13. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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    15k every few years for bladders no?
     
  14. Prancing 12

    Prancing 12 Formula 3

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    Are bladders really that big of a deal though?

    At first blush, the obvious point would be that the majority of F40s have them. Additionally, fuel bladder / tank replacement isn't exactly an unheard of service requirement, especially for owners of F40s... F50s need them, heck even CGTs are seeing fuel tank replacements required for cars that sit.
     
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  15. rmolke85

    rmolke85 Formula Junior
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    And if you thought F40 bladders were tough to replace. CGT tanks can be 40K including labor.... The F40 bladders are more charming than anything else in my view.
     
  16. rmolke85

    rmolke85 Formula Junior
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    Its 15k but thats after 10 years recommended, and like I said previous owners of my car drove with its bladders WAY past that.
     
  17. BarryK

    BarryK Formula 3

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    True, but the insurance man won't be getting his check book out if it has self-immolated while on out-of-date tanks.
     
  18. joe sackey

    joe sackey Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Look forward to it!

    They are pretty easy to replace.

    Correct.

    Not every few years, 10 years recommended but with regular maintenance with visual inspections of the bladders we are seeing them last much longer.

    Correct, not a big deal.

    Very common.

    If you can show that the car has been regularly maintained including regular visual inspection of the bladders, perhaps your insurance carrier who anticipate much further business may be inclined towards coverage.
     
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  19. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    i was right :)
     
  20. PAUL500

    PAUL500 Formula 3

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    Great podcast with Mark Lyon of GTO Engineering.

    At the end he is asked which cars he thinks are undervalued, he replies "F40"

     
  21. PAUL500

    PAUL500 Formula 3

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    I have heard it alluded to that such panels are marked, but yet to see any pics of such, anybody have any they can post up to help future buyers
     
  22. rmolke85

    rmolke85 Formula Junior
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    Not sure if things ever changed throughout production but what I have seen:

    -Each Door Hinge on attachment to car should have a number
    -Front lid, remove cover to access pop up headlight units, number should be on lip under one of those covers.
    -Remove center of rear wing, number somewhere in there for rear clam.

    I am not sure if/where rockers have numbers.

    The cars do have factory body numbers that are referenced. Just learning so anyone can feel free to shoot me down or add to it.
     
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  23. Prancing 12

    Prancing 12 Formula 3

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    I don't want to sound flippant (and that's not my intention at all), but how so? What are you basing this on?
     
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  24. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    a year ago when i started this thread, the f40 average value seemed to be around $1-1.2 mil.
    a year later we see in the current values thread that the last many sales have been significantly higher priced.
    hence, my assertion that the car was undervalued at that point was correct.
     
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  25. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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    54:18
     
  26. joe sackey

    joe sackey Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Following the cardinal market rule that one sale does not make a market, F40s are still generally worth between $1m and $2m in today's market, and the latter value applies to just a small number of cars with super-low miles, impeccable unmodified condition, and exceptional provenance.

    The market has not changed in the last year or two, however, we should say that considering the global pandemic, the market remains quite strong, especially for truly exceptional cars. Examples with modifications and or higher miles however continue to take a considerable time to sell.

    Generally speaking what determines wether an F40 is valued at the high range between $1m and $2m is subject to these factors https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/posts/147388191/

    The best recorded sources of F40 public sales are https://www.classic.com/m/ferrari/f40/ and https://www.glenmarch.com/cars/results/quick/Ferrari/F40?unsold=1 with their data points recorded in the graphs below.

    Here are some cars on the market today with their asking prices, bear in mind that they'll probably sell for less than these numbers:

    https://www.dupontregistry.com/autos/listing/1990/ferrari/f40/2256478

    https://www.classicdriver.com/en/car/ferrari/f40/1989/673652

    https://www.autoscout24.com/lst/ferrari/f40?sort=price&desc=0&ustate=N,U&size=20&page=1&atype=C&

    http://joemacari.co.uk/All-Cars-for-Sale/_prod_Ferrari-F40_4708.htm

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  27. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    i just received the annual evaluation update from hagerty - they have a complete ferrari data base, and they raised the mean on f40's to $1.6.
    just fyi and fwiw.
     
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  28. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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    An 1990 F40, two owner car, sold new in Switzerland, with just 10'900 kms, was sold October 7, 2020, in Switzerland for Euro 900 K. It had been sitting for more than 20 years. Really superb and nice example with all books and tools, non cat.
    I think there is a massive price difference between early and late cars and especially between European and American markets.
    On the other hand the USD$ is "in the toilet"* (so to speak) against the Swiss Franc CHF and the Euro € as well.
    (*please excuse my expression, surely it is not politically correct)

    Marcel Massini
     

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