The Coughlan Affidavit | Page 7 | FerrariChat

The Coughlan Affidavit

Discussion in 'Other Racing' started by hg, Jul 14, 2007.

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  1. hg

    hg Formula Junior

    Dec 26, 2005
    422
    some other news...

    1) Gino Macaluso, the President of the Sporting Council and a voting member at the FIA board of inquiry in Paris stated " In my opinion McL is guilty and needs to be punished, I have the arguments to prove it and I tried to make everybody understand it. But, I was by myself, against everyone else - the judges. There wasn't even a correct vote...they all assented to Max Mosley's thoughts that McL should not be punished ( did MM acquiesce to Bernie Ecclestone who also is a voting member? ).
    Antonio Tavares, the portuguese voting member confirms by stating that "we usually vote by secret ballot, but this time, it wasn't necessary as everyone nodded".

    2) At some point there was some heated bickering between JT and RD.

    3) Ferrari is mulling whether to appeal.
     
  2. hg

    hg Formula Junior

    Dec 26, 2005
    422
    My personal analysis:

    1) Ferrari will not pullout from F1

    2) Max Mosley was reported by the press to be furious at the scandal and that punishment would be dealt heavily including drivers and constructors points deducted if McL was found culpable, while Bernie Eccle$tone took the opposite stand. What changed? Was it just theatrical play or did BE persuade MM in some way.
    One way or the other the money came into play.

    3) The 25 member council convened in Paris was composed of BE, MM and a representative member from each country hosting a F1 race. Were these members from all these countries holding by far the majority of the votes afraid to challenge in any way the MM line of argument for fear of losing their country's F1 race? According to the italian voting member Gino Mancuso BE and all the voting members were quiet and only MM did the talking.

    3) According to Gino Mancuso the Fia proceeding in Paris were highly irregular as the voting occurred only by the members nodding and not by secret ballot as it should have been ( this was the procedure in the past ). At minimum, he states, we should at least voted by raising of hands.

    4) The FIA's decision stabbed Ferrari directly in the back as Ferrari was the first team to sign up with them when the F1 teams were threatening to breakaway. Without question Ferrrari does have the most fans in the world and a move the other way would have meant the end to the BE show.

    5) I would not want to be in Stepney's position and face an Italian judge in Modena and especially if convicted given jail time.

    6) What will Luca di Montezemolo do? He is considered "the fox" and must save face as he already went public with the statement to Ferrari employees and all the world fans " this is far from over".
     
  3. Senna1994

    Senna1994 F1 World Champ
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    http://www.planet-f1.com/story/0,18954,3261_2625548,00.html


    Though McLaren's FIA hearing in Paris is over, the Stepneygate spying row is far from finished. And judging from Ferrari boss Jean Todt's subsequent 'Cold Light of Day' statement put out by Ferrari, the Italian marque are certainly not finished with it.


    So why did the FIA find McLaren guilty yet fail to impose a sanction? The answer may lie back in the events of 1994.


    For those yet to get their heads behind the row a brief summary. Long-time Ferrari employee, Englishman Nigel Stepney was passed over for promotion when his boss, Ross Brawn, the highly successful technical chief of Ferrari decided to go on a year's sabbatical. Stepney vented his frustrations in an Autosport interview early in 2007- something rarely heard in F1 (yet heard all the time in football).


    Then news hit the press of a sabotage attempt within the Ferrari team involving a "strange white powder" that had been found near the cars prior to them being shipped off to Monaco. What has come to light subsequently is that McLaren chief designer Mike Coughlan was caught in possession of a 780-page technical dossier on the Ferrari 2007 car - believed to have been supplied by Stepney.


    Though the majority of the information could only be applied to building a 2008 car from scratch, Ferrari allege that certain aspects of it, such as the brake balance system and knowledge of their movable floor device have assisted McLaren's championship challenge. The Maranello-based team had found a way of circumventing the flexible floor test - allowing it to move and become more aerodynamically efficient when put under load. It was an effective cheat on the principal behind the rules - i.e. it broke the rules but passed the test put in place to prevent moveable floors.


    After a highly successful opening grand prix a suspicious McLaren asked the FIA for a clarification of the rules. The FIA realised that the test they used wasn't strenuous enough, and at the next grand prix all of a sudden Ferrari's car was significantly slower. Jean Todt maintains that the McLaren team were given a tip-off from their estranged employee in March and subsequently Mike Coughlan was handed the 780-page dossier in Spain.


    These details would have remained hidden had it not been for the fact that Coughlan's wife took the dossier to a photo-copying shop in Woking and an eagle-eyed employee realised what was happening and contacted Ferrari.


    An important element is that Nigel Stepney and Mike Coughlan had already approached embattled Honda boss Nick Fry with a view to working for the team in 2008. When Coughlan's name was put in the public domain in connection with the leaked dossier it took Fry two days to come forward and admit that he had talked to them both. Whereas before it had looked like a case of a disaffected Ferrari employee tring to help his rivals, now it looked like a new move for the pair of them.


    McLaren's hearing in Paris this week has been to find out how much the team knew about Coughlan's possession of Ferrari technical data, when he had it, and if they have used that knowledge to their advantage. Mclaren have already invited the FIA to inspect their car and see if any of the technology from the 2007 Ferrari has been incorporated into their car.


    Jean Todt believes that McLaren were given documents which allowed them to challenge the validity of his car in Melbourne - i.e. that they dishonestly obtained evidence against a dishonest device. Facing a World Motor Sport Council which rules across a number of motorsport disciplines it's difficult to understand why he thought this was a winning argument. Jean comes from a rallying background and will have known about the Toyota 1995 air restrictors, where the 1995 Toyota WRC team deliberately machined parts to give them an advantage but disguised that advantage so the cars passed scrutineering. They were thrown out of the 1995 championship and banned from racing in 1996. Had another team got that information from a Toyota mole there was no likely action going to be taken against them, such was the FIA anger at the subterfuge. So why was it going to change given the same FIA president?


    Ferrari themselves have managed to get McLaren technical equipment banned thanks to other people's intervention. In 1997 Darren Heath's sensational photographs of the McLaren brake/steer device gave Ferrari the evidence they needed to have it banned (after it had been passed as legal by the FIA technical delegate). To get these he went on track to the retired McLaren of David Coulthard and stuck his camera into the footwell.


    And Ferrari, it now turns out, are not above direct spying themselves. Former Ferrari driver Mika Salo told Finnish newspaper Ilta Sanomat: "When I was driving for Ferrari we always spied on McLaren, listening to their radio traffic. After every practice session I had in front of me, on paper, all the discussions Mika Hakkinen had had with his engineer."


    Going into the FIA meeting a great many motorsport fans around the world knew some of the content of Mike Coughlan's sworn High Court affidavit. Coughlan is not what legal counsel would call an independent witness to the events, he's antagonistic. The minute he decided to team up with Nigel Stepney and go and speak to the Honda team about a job he revealed that - despite his senior position - he was not particularly happy at McLaren. The fact that he didn't dare take the 780-page dossier to work to have it photo-copied points to the fact that either McLaren had seen it and told him to get rid of it, or that they never saw it in the first place. (But probably the former).


    Coughlan's evidence about McLaren has been undermined by his desire to go and work for somebody else, just as Stepeney's would have been if he revealed (or goes on to reveal) embarrassing secrets about Ferrari's past after his ominous quote to the Sunday Times; "I know where the bodies are buried."


    Prior to the hearing and in advance of all the court action in England and Italy, there have been constant, almost daily leaks to the Italian press revealing details and allegations surrounding the story. The worst of these has been from Mike Coughlan's sworn affidavit to the High Court - the document should be highly confidential.


    It seems that the desire to get the facts out into the public domain and put McLaren in a bad light has run ahead of the desire to individually punish the two men involved. Because now there must be a serious risk that Stepney and Coughlan canot get fair trials because of all the prior media coverage - details that should only have been revealed in court.



    Max Mosley has never been someone to be steered into a decision. Countless officials at the European Union commission will attest to that. If the FIA have given McLaren an easy ride over 'Stepneygate' then the constant leaking of information to fuel the story will not have been to Ferrari's advantage. It appears that rather than keep quiet and prosecute the individuals concerned the Scuderia have been keen to publicise the case and embroil McLaren as much as they can. They have been active publicists of the affair, which has cast F1 in a bad light.


    This is where 1994 comes in. At the end of Michael Schumacher's first World Championship season his Benetton car was found to have illegal traction control software on it. So what was that doing there? The logical process would have been to sling the team, the technical staff and the car out of F1. The FIA decided that they could not prove it had been used through the season - despite complex photographic evidence from the French GP - and hence team boss Flavio Briatore and tech director Ross Brawn were allowed to continue in F1. What the FIA didn't want in the year that Ayrton Senna was killed and there was an alleged deliberate accident, Schumi taking Damon Hill out of the final race in Adelaide, was more bad news.


    So they said the case was not proven and left it at that. Had they applied the same argument as they did a year later to Toyota in the WRC, then who knows where we would have been.


    It's interesting to hear Flavio Briatore play up to an Italian media and say he is baffled by the decision not to punish McLaren when they had been found guilty. Yet in 1994 his team was flagrantly guilty of a breach of the rules - it wasn't a matter of receiving unsolicited documents, the Benetton team conspired to break the rules. And nothing much happened then. So it's hard to know why he's so baffled. The neat irony of course is that both Nigel Stepney and Mike Coughlan worked together at Benetton.


    McLaren have received a severe warning - a suspended sentence - and they'll have to be good boys for the rest of this season and a fair few to come. For Ferrari to say that their possession of Ferrari documents has helped McLaren substantially, is open to a very large debate.


    The loss of Ferrari's handy rule bend/illegal car (depending on which viewpoint you come from) has made a difference, but by how much? The post-Melbourne press releases put out by teams who had to change their floors said the change would have very little effect. So were they all lying?


    Whether Todt and Montezemolo are justified in calling for another team to have sanctions brought against them for receiving that tip-off remains to be seen. On past evidence Max Mosley doesn't react well to someone flying in the face of carefully considered FIA deliberations and there may well be further ructions to come. He doesn't take being called "dishonest" lightly.


    Ferrari's biggest bugbear this year has been reliability and the points they lost from two Raikkonen retirements, a Felipe Massa stall in GB and his Canadian GP disqualification. These have all been self-inflicted. However no-one doubts their supreme technical ability and the tide of progress (the tight twisty Hungaroring aside) of the 2007 car's development still looks likely to give them the last laugh.


    Even if laughter is the last thing on their minds right now.


    Andrew Davies
     
  4. PhilNotHill

    PhilNotHill Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jul 3, 2006
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    Thanks Senna1994

    "This is where 1994 comes in. At the end of Michael Schumacher's first World Championship season his Benetton car was found to have illegal traction control software on it. So what was that doing there? The logical process would have been to sling the team, the technical staff and the car out of F1. The FIA decided that they could not prove it had been used through the season - despite complex photographic evidence from the French GP - and hence team boss Flavio Briatore and tech director Ross Brawn were allowed to continue in F1. What the FIA didn't want in the year that Ayrton Senna was killed and there was an alleged deliberate accident, Schumi taking Damon Hill out of the final race in Adelaide, was more bad news."


    Of course they had software on Schumi's Benneton but couldn't prove they used it. Right.

    Sounds like F1 makes up the rules as it goes along. NAStyCAR on the other hand deducts points almost weekly for breaking the rules.

    F1 has no credibility. Is there any point in watching F1?
     
  5. Ferranki

    Ferranki Formula Junior

    Mar 9, 2007
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    Ken
    Mr Davies seems convinced the leaks originated in some manner from SF. Todt is on record as having denied this. If SF were not the source, who was and why?
     
  6. racerx3317

    racerx3317 F1 Veteran

    Oct 17, 2004
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    Ok, so Ferrari basically was cheating at the begining of they year. They are upset because they got caught by the FIA due to the info Stepney handed over to Coughlan. McLaren is accused to espionage but the FIA can't prove if any of the info is on the cars. Now a former Ferrari driver is saying Ferrari used to spy on McLaren all the time (big suprise there, all teams spy on each other). You can't make this stuff up, where's my popcorn..........:)
     
  7. hg

    hg Formula Junior

    Dec 26, 2005
    422
    All the teams check, or you can say spy, on each other by taking photos, listening in, if they can...but this is way different...it's industrial espionage and a crime possessing proprietary information...it is of a great magnitude and a devastating loss for Ferrrari....all the designs, fuel and pit strategy plans, etc. for the 2006 and 2007 F1 cars are in the hands of your archirival!
     
  8. 355

    355 F1 Rookie
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    Unfortunately some do not or dont want to understand this namely McCheaters fans.
     
  9. LightGuy

    LightGuy Three Time F1 World Champ
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  10. Far Out

    Far Out F1 Veteran

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    Ferrari wasn't cheating. There had been a specific rule and a test to enforce the rule. The Ferraris passed the test, only after the test has been modified, the flex floor would have been illegal (=would not have passed the test).
     
  11. 355

    355 F1 Rookie
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    Dont waste your time. He dosnt want to understand it.
     
  12. Senna1994

    Senna1994 F1 World Champ
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    Phil,

    They do make certain decisions that are ok, remember when McLaren was protesting the Barge Board Ferrari had in 99 in Malaysia? Fortunately they ruled in favor of Ferrari than, it gave Irvine a chance at the championship in Suzuka, which he lost, but it also helped Ferrari win the WCC.
     
  13. hg

    hg Formula Junior

    Dec 26, 2005
    422
    Why has McL not fired Coughlan yet?

    Possible explanations:

    (1) Is it because of a cover up at a higher level or
    (2) this behaviour is okay at McL or
    (3) other unknown reason at this time....
     
  14. boxer frank

    boxer frank Karting

    Sep 30, 2004
    165
    toronto canada
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    FRANK
    great question

    i bet they are still paying him

    that means he still hasnt said all he knows!!!

    coughlin outs as few as possible and team integrity still pay his salary and probably pick up his legal bills.etc
     
  15. hg

    hg Formula Junior

    Dec 26, 2005
    422
    By tomorrow Ferrari will have provided the District Attorney of Modena a 6 page petition against Vodaphone McLaren Mercedes, to try to give a sense of justice to the FIA ruling. Luca has already stated "it will not end here" and the counter-offensive has started.

    The petition starts with the FIA's findings in Paris and this may provide the autobahn for Ferrari's fury.
    The District Attorney Giuseppe Tibis will receive today the lab findings of the famous white powder and also will meet with Ferrari's legal team. The DA's office most likely will open a criminal inquiry and will ask the High Court of London for the "Coughln Affidavit".

    Possibilities?...It is difficult to predict the outcome...but this appears the venue that Ferrari has chosen for "it will not end here". The hypothetical criminal charges will be industrial spying with possession of intellectual propriety and computer information and inviolability of secrets.

    Regardless it will be a slow but inexorable process.
     
  16. hg

    hg Formula Junior

    Dec 26, 2005
    422
    Ferrari released a statement that Mosley's decision to appeal to the FIA International Appeal Court is a "sensate decision". Mosley decided this because Ferrari was not able to present its case in Paris last week since it was present as a spectator only.
    The Interantional Appeal court of the FIA will gather at the end of August.
     
  17. hg

    hg Formula Junior

    Dec 26, 2005
    422
    LONDON, England (Reuters) -- McLaren's title prospects were plunged back into doubt on Tuesday when Formula One's governing body agreed an appeal court should have the final say on the 'spy saga' gripping the sport.


    FIA president Max Mosley has granted Ferrari's request for a review of the decision not to punish McLaren.

    Max Mosley, president of the International Automobile Federation, granted an Italian request for a review of last week's controversial FIA decision not to punish McLaren for unauthorised possession of Ferrari information.

    A spokesman said the hearing, in front of a panel of at least three judges, was likely to be in Paris at the end of August with leaders McLaren again facing sanctions ranging from a reprimand to being kicked out of the championship.

    McLaren, with 22-year-old British rookie Lewis Hamilton two points clear of double world champion team-mate Fernando Alonso, lead Ferrari by 27 points with seven races remaining. The next grand prix is in Hungary on Sunday.


    McLaren, who suspended chief designer Mike Coughlan after the Briton was found to have some 780 pages of Ferrari technical information at his home at the beginning of July, said they were confident the appeal court would also clear them.

    The Mercedes-powered team had argued Coughlan was a disgruntled employee acting in isolation and the FIA's World Motor Sport Council decided there was insufficient evidence that the team had benefited from the data.

    Ferrari said that decision "legitimises dishonest behavior" and Luigi Macaluso, the president of the Italian Automobile Federation, wrote to Mosley on that team's behalf to seek an appeal.

    He said Ferrari, who were not allowed to appeal in their own right, had not been able to present their side of the story at the last hearing.

    Mosley, in a reply published on the FIA's Web site, agreed they had a case.

    "Exclusion or withdrawal of points did not seem appropriate if it was really just a case of a rogue employee illegitimately acquiring information for his own purposes," he said.

    "Your letter suggests that the outcome may have been different if the council had given Ferrari further opportunities to be heard beyond those that were in fact offered.

    "Because of this and the importance of public confidence in the outcome, I will send this matter to the FIA court of appeal under article 23.1 of the FIA statutes," he added.

    Mosley said he would ask the court to hear both Ferrari and McLaren as well as "any other championship competitor who so requests" to determine whether the first decision was appropriate.

    If not, he added, they should "substitute such other decision as may be just."

    Ferrari, who are taking legal action in England against Coughlan and in Italy against their own dismissed employee Nigel Stepney, welcomed the FIA's decision as "a sensible one.

    "The FIA has correctly noted that Ferrari should be able to enjoy all the rights of a party in a trial and that was not the case in the audience of the world council," said a spokesman.

    Meanwhile, McLaren accused Ferrari of waging a "thoroughly misleading press campaign".

    "McLaren is not aware of any new information or arguments that have arisen since the meeting of the World Motor Sport Council and therefore assumes that these same materials will now be considered by the FIA International Court of Appeal," the team said in a statement.

    "Whilst this is both disappointing and time-consuming, McLaren is confident that the FIA International Court of Appeal will also exonerate McLaren and we will in the meanwhile continue to focus on our current World Championship program."
     
  18. hg

    hg Formula Junior

    Dec 26, 2005
    422
    McLAREN RACING STATEMENT
    Woking, United Kingdom, 31st July 2007: Following a thoroughly misleading press campaign by Ferrari and pressure from the Automobile Club D’ Italia, the FIA has asked the FIA International Court of Appeal to consider the unanimous decision made by the World Motor Sport Council on 26th July 2007. Having considered in great detail the full submissions of both Ferrari and McLaren, the World Motorsport Council determined that there was no evidence that any information, passed by a Ferrari team member to a McLaren employee, had been brought into the organisation or provided any benefit whatsoever to the McLaren programme.

    McLaren is not aware of any new information or arguments that have arisen since the meeting of the World Motor Sport Council and therefore assumes that these same materials will now be considered by the FIA International Court of Appeal. Whilst this is both disappointing and time-consuming, McLaren is confident that the FIA International Court of Appeal will also exonerate McLaren and we will in the meanwhile continue to focus on our current World Championship programme.
     
  19. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    :D, maybe I am right after all and Ferrari started this on purpose to get their only competitor nullified ... Mafia like ;)

    Pete
     
  20. Senna1994

    Senna1994 F1 World Champ
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    LOL you maybe right...
     
  21. hg

    hg Formula Junior

    Dec 26, 2005
    422
    The Max Mosley appeal to the International Appeal Court is a cold shower for the McLaren.
    But Norbert Haug, the number one Merceds man at McL, said “We receive with serenity the decision of the Fia, as we are totally convinced that we have not not to broken any rule”.
     
  22. hg

    hg Formula Junior

    Dec 26, 2005
    422
    RD yesterday released an open spin letter following a previous official statement.

    (1) RD states "It is in the interests of Formula 1 that whistle-blowing is encouraged and not discouraged". This implies that spying is lawful and RD's invitation to spy is also lawful. There is no need to have spies in the teams to discover the little tricks each team uses, since there are FIA paid inspectors to do just that... In F1 everyone tries to obtain an advantage by pushing the envelope with improvements and many of these have been approved by the FIA applying a new interpretation to the regulations .

    (2) RD admits to the knowledge of the Stepney email regarding the floor and states that Ferrari's win at the Australian GP was illegal. That is not correct as FIA ruled it illegal after the GP. If it was illegal then Ferrari would have been penalized. RD does not mention the rear wing deflector that he thought illegal but the FIA did not.

    (3) RD is on paper to having knowledge of the floor and rear wing. At the same time Stepney also provided information and sketches of the brake balance system. It can be assumed as a fact that RD had knowledge of the latter.

    (4) RD states "So far as Mr Taylor is concerned, Mr Coughlan briefly showed him a single diagram. Mr Taylor had no idea whether this was an old or new diagram and had no idea it came from Mr Stepney. He was not given a copy and made no use of the diagram. He paid no attention to the incident". How can someone believe at this high level that Taylor would be so naive as not to ask questions of the diagrams and provenance and possibly discuss this with others?

    At the very least RD was playing poker knowing the other player's hand and anyway you look at it is not sportsmanship.
    What he should have done was to inform the FIA directly or at least anonymously and also he should have reported Stepney to Ferrari ( remember McL and Ferrari had a secret gentleman's agreement ). Any of these actions would have ultimately achieved his goal of getting the FIA to rule on the floor. Why he did not?

    Ron Dennis heavily criticises Ferrari for spreading what he says is misleading information that is aimed at damaging McLaren's reputation "McLaren's reputation has been unfairly sullied by incorrect press reports from Italy and grossly misleading statements from Ferrari". In reality it is RD who made all this happen and he can only blame himself...or that employee at the copy store who was a Ferrari fan but should have been a McL fan.
     
  23. boxer frank

    boxer frank Karting

    Sep 30, 2004
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    FRANK
    iam undecided about norbert
    never really read anything bad about him
    either norbert is in honestly in the dark or rons starting to rub off on him cause even
    he also said a few days ago that they are all cleaner than clean
     
  24. Senna1994

    Senna1994 F1 World Champ
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    I don't think Norbert has much of an influence on the Chassis side, basically he was a Journalist that became the Head of MB Racing Department (i.e. Marketing).
     

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