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the Biturbo Market

Discussion in 'Maserati' started by 67bmer, Oct 16, 2019.

  1. staatsof

    staatsof Six Time F1 World Champ
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    Bob
    That's if the bolts come out but mine are stripped. Anyway not the place for this.
     
  2. Stephen B.

    Stephen B. Karting

    Nov 3, 2018
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    Stephen Bailey
    Boy a Biturbo market-l wish. Purchased my 87 SI 5 years ago. Only 30k miles and very clean with a MIE full body kit and period correct Simons 3 piece wheels and a beautiful wood MOMO steering wheel. Interior was almost perfect and all original. All that being said it still required a lot of time and money to sort it out and be mostly reliable. A short list:
    Complete brake system including hoses
    All fluids and filters of course
    New transmission bearings, clutch, flywheel
    All new shocks and struts
    Flushed gas tank and a new gauge
    New master brake, clutch and clutch slave cylinders
    Fuse box(twice) fuel injectors, all most all of the engine sensors.
    I could go on but the point is made. These are not for the undedicated. But I just love this car, will probably never be worth what I have into it but I don’t care. She drives great and always gets wonderful compliments. Mostly “ I’ve never seen one outside of a junkyard “. I love the unloved cars including my Ferrari GT4. My lovely Biturbo was awarded third place in the Maserati class at Concorso Italiano in Monterey a couple of years ago—no small feat for a Biturbo. Its great fun owning one these if you like being the weird and different guy.
     
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  3. Nembo1777

    Nembo1777 F1 Veteran

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    Being the different though not necessarily weird guy is the privilege of the Maseratista:)

    Congrats on your journey with your macchina.
     
  4. staatsof

    staatsof Six Time F1 World Champ
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    THIS post is useless WO photos ...
     
  5. Stephen B.

    Stephen B. Karting

    Nov 3, 2018
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    Stephen Bailey
    Ok point taken, I’ll post a couple of pics later. Its one of the best out there.
     
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  6. Stephen B.

    Stephen B. Karting

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    Stephen Bailey
  7. S_AGATA

    S_AGATA Formula Junior

    Aug 24, 2016
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    Jon/Sean Sohaei
  8. 67bmer

    67bmer Formula Junior
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    1989 Maserati 430 5-Speed

    Very nice example! Amazing all the subtle differences between this car and my 89 spyder! I don't think they ever made two cars alike! Sure would be nice to see this car go over $20k!!! It will probably struggle to break $10k. With those production numbers, if this car wore a horse instead of a trident, in my opinion, it would be in the $50K - $200k range...

    https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1989-maserati-430-3/

    there is also a link in the add with some useful wiring information posted.
     
  9. 67bmer

    67bmer Formula Junior
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  10. thecarnut

    thecarnut Formula 3

    Apr 22, 2006
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  11. 67bmer

    67bmer Formula Junior
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    I am thinking about starting a registry and seeing how many we can find here... I once heard a number of 220ish were imported into the USA.

    Some of the values I see on Bring-a-Trailer make no sense to me whatsoever! Wayne Carini said once that cars typically bottom around 25 years and then begin to appreciate as people become nostalgic.
     
  12. 67bmer

    67bmer Formula Junior
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  13. staatsof

    staatsof Six Time F1 World Champ
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  14. staatsof

    staatsof Six Time F1 World Champ
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    Nostalgia isn't going to do it. Maserati did a horrible job of introducing the Biturbo in 84-86 and they were so cash strapped with such a cantankerous CEO that even huge fans like me were left all to their own devices. 90% of the cars were left to rot by their owners. It was just too late for the somewhat better versions 87, 89 and a sprinkling of 90 models.

    You still don't want to get involved in bringing one back from the dead unless money is no object, you don't mind never seeing it again and just want to enjoy the car. That's how I've approached my ownership for almost 35 years. I don't want to think about all the time I've spent, that's most of it, parts I've done better on.

    BTW the old Yahoo Biturbozentrum website which is stuffed full of goo info and has some very knowledgable folks as members has been closed and has moved to the much more reliable if very unintuitive and ugly Groups.IO platform. A handful of us are keeping it alive so all the info moved over.
     
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  15. 67bmer

    67bmer Formula Junior
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    SOLD FOR $11,200 ON 11/27/19

    would have been nice to see it go for more, but not as bad as I feared...
     
  16. 67bmer

    67bmer Formula Junior
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    1994 Maserati Ghibli 2.8

    https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1994-maserati-ghibli-2/

    Given that they were no longer imported into the USA, this is slightly off topic but an interesting car, none the less.

    This is a little more comparable to my 1994 e36 BMW 325is. DOHC and direct ignition should have made a huge difference and more capable being a daily driver capable of >200,000 miles. I don't know if the electronics would be up to it. Beautiful exhaust system! The suspension is completely different than the biturbos. This is a Japanese car imported into Canada.

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  17. staatsof

    staatsof Six Time F1 World Champ
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    And probably not legal in the USA. Better check. Maybe that's changed? I think Shamals and Ghibli Cup cars got an exemption so that those ARE legal. Maybe the Ghibli II's as well with age now, never in California ...

    These are harder cars to maintain. Parts availability is getting quite scarce and expensive for the engine. The rear suspension IS completely different the front not so much. The front is a slight change from the 89 MY set up. The Late cars got the Ferrari designed ala 456 ZF limited slip tranny. The Getrag 6 speed is just like the BMW tranny of that year. Some of the same shift linkage updates available for the BMW are a direct fit on the Ghibli II. The Koni electronic shocks are not exactly off the shelf items from another car. I think there are folks rebuilding them now though. There's a thread about this over on Biturbozentrum.

    BMWs are like house flies, you see them everywhere. These Maseratis are unique but even the latest are not of the same build quality as a BMW. It's the same body shell as the original with some changes that make the engine compartment longer but stock it's still not a stiff body. The front body/chassis arms have a potential cracking issue near the firewall. My race car version did and I have a full roll cage in that car which probably exacerbated when driving aggressively over the rumble strips at the track. But street version Ghibli IIs have also developed the issue over time.

    I see these as more of a collector's fun driving car and not as a neat alternative for a longer term high mileage car @ >200,000 miles. I think 100,000 miles will be a struggle and expensive.

    My 84 is at 70 K and as the original owner I've poured lots of hours into it over the years. Original interior which with some repairs is still quite nice and even with a few body damage incidents, no collisions, the paint is very original. The later biturbos (89+) and Ghibli IIs got bigger rotors but it's a single piston sliding pin caliper unless you get a cup car or perhaps a GT? whereas my 84 has 4 piston calipers directly from a BMW model. Biturbos with Brembo Calipers was a rare thing. My GOC has F355 Challenge hubs, rotors and calipers on the front and F40 calipers on the rear and the front suspension is completely bespoke to that race car.

    This car unfortunately does not have the later rear ZF drive train but it's still a nice looking car which should have better torque off the line than a 2.0 L car.
    It's an older 4spd ZF automatic.
     
  18. 67bmer

    67bmer Formula Junior
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    1992 Maserati Shamal

    Here is another interesting car that was a great leap forward from the V6 biturbos! The Shamal appears to be a coup version of the spyder updated with a V8, DOHC, 4-valves/cylinder, 8-coils with wires to spark plugs, 6 speed manual gearbox, on 16" wheels. Rated at 326hp and 320 fl-lb torque. Seller claims only 396 Shamals were sold. Just think if this specification was introduced earlier...

    Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and this is one ugly duckling in my opinion. All the styling "enhancements" seem like they were just stuck on by amatures. The wiper deflector, trunk, fender flares, etc. however, the commenters seem to approve of the styling.

    https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1992-maserati-shamal-2/

    This Shamal sold last year on BaT
    https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1992-maserati-shamal/
    Sold For $70,777 On 2/20/19

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  19. staatsof

    staatsof Six Time F1 World Champ
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    You are aware that all of the Biturbo styling updates along these lines were by Gandini right?
    It was during a certain styling phase of his. You set some of these same cues on other cars.
    The Ghibli II is a less pronounced version of the Shamal's design being restricted by how much of the original Biturbo coupe's body structure is retained in that model.
    At the time Maserati had very little money so they didn't have the resources to start over with a completely fresh sheet of paper.

    In truth the later Ghibli II Cup was a better performer with more horsepower though less torque and better balance with a lighter power plant up front.
    The V8 biturbo motor of that era didn't develop nearly power one would have expected but none of the chassis had the technical sophistication at the time which all later cars would come to have so just more raw power and torque might not have been so wise anyway. They got more out of the 3200GT version. The later Ghibli IIs also got ABS and a ZF LS diff both of which the Shamal never did.

    I think it's a visually stunning car and I loved it the first time I saw them in the flesh in Italy at a Maserati meet back in 94. Medium metallic blue is a stunning color on it.
     
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