The Aeronca Champion and its decendants: Best stick and rudder airplane for the buck

Indeed...the Citabria is a great all around airplane Russ. My first tail dragger with about 10 hrs then jumped into a Navy N3N biplane with no problem. The little Champ is about the only thing I fly anymore.
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I've got some time in various Citabrias (7ECA and 7KCAB, mostly), and I've always had a great time in them. In fact, I've been thinking that should be my next purchase-- probably a 7GCBC with the bigger engine. That way I can go in and out of some little strips around here, and still do a loop or a roll once in a while.

 

Zackly currect, Russ. Our little Camp was a real winner when we could keep the prop and spinner on it. Stuff kept falling off of it, though.
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Sortta looks like Billy Bob Parks and his Ozark Special. Blew Angel....haha

 

Had the priviledge of owning N5190X (7ECA, 1969) through the mid 1980s.

They are indeed great stick and rudder basic airplanes.

 

Having flown the Champ, Cub, Super Cub, and Citabria, I liked the Super Cub best. Sharper on the controls, well balanced, agile, and forgiving. The PA 11 was a lot of fun and a very good short field bird.

 

Interesting - have never flown one myself, just the classic low-powered Cub.

Have you compared it to the Super Decathlon 180hp with symetrical wing & aileron spades? The insurance company made me take aerobatics for about 20 hours in one of those when I got the 7ECA.

I did very little aero in my own 115 h.p. plane after experiencing it, mostly short recreational cross-country on weekends.

 

Never got to fly the Super Decathlon but it sounds interesting. I flew the ol' standard Citabria with a bit more HP. I can't remember the HP. The PA-11 with a 115 Lyc. was my favorite. Chased buzzards in it but was always out-maneuvered.

 

New Champs were fitted with either 115 or 150 hp Lycs. Have flown both and prefer the bigger hp model. Has enough to save a bounced landing....at the top of the bounce apply throttle and fly away or let yourself down for another try.

 

Right - my Citabria was the 115 h.p. 7ECA, the up-models were 150 h.p. It was a 1969 model, built by Bellanca, and I traded a 1975 Porsche 911S Targa for it (even money) in 1980.

The first Decathlon was the 150 h.p. Champ with the sym wing and some other mods. The Super Decathlon was 180 h.p.

Interestingly, my biggest problem with aerobatics in the 115 h.p. Citabria was not lack of power - it was that I really found I needed the Decathlon's constant speed prop to keep it from over-revving during dives. Of course, everything was easier in the Decathlon.

 

+1 on the champ. I love the original 7AC 65hp with a wood prop. Great sound at idle. Wear ear protection in flight though. Straight exhaust pipes are only about 2 feet long. The Cub has a muffler and is prettier. The Cub also has that cool split door. After that however the champ takes it.

Solo a champ from either the front or the rear (Cub back seat solo only).
The Champ has a wide comfortable cabin.(front seat of the cub is cramped)
Classic flat bottom wing on the Champ stalls across the entire span at the same time. (the cub wing has some wash (twist) and stalls from the root outward. No fun in that plus it's not as efficient. The Champ is faster.

Dave

 

65 HP Cub is soloed from the rear but all subsequent models are solo in the front. Both the Cub and Champ have twist or wash out. Nobody has mentioned my favorite, the Husky. Not many of them built but they are great in every aspect. I would have one in a flash. I got to fly one after being out of the saddle for 26 years and it was old home times again in 5 minutes. My friend who owns it flies into remote back country strips in Washington and Idaho. One strip is located on a river bar that has to be approached from behind a huge rocky cliff that the river winds around. A hard right turn around the rock and set up in maybe 30 seconds and land on a few hundred feet of sand bar. Set up the tent and fish for trout for breakfast the next morning. He does it all the time and the Husky is equal to the task.It is a roomy, comfortable, and sweet airplane.

 

Are you sure about that Bob? Our Champ and I are currently 1000 miles apart but I don't remember any wash out in the wing. I suppose it could be rigged wrong though. I do remember that the stall in the Classic Cub seems more of a mush compared to the Champs I have flown. The upside is you can't make a hard landing in the cub but that is also the downside if you ask me. I have never flown a Super Cub or a Husky. But, as far as I know they are not certified aerobatic like the Citab and the Decathlon.

Please forgive my bias as I am hopelessly a Champ man.

Dave

 

No problem with bias, Dave. Good points about each airplane. I think that the Cub had a USA 35B airfoil (almost flat) and the Champ had an NACA 4412 (flat). Two degrees incidence at the root, which put the lower surface parallel to horizontal datum,and the tip had a two degree washout. I do remember that the Cub had something like a two degree twist that made the stall progress from the root to the tip the same way.
Both very nice airplanes.
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I got to thinking, and that is bad, about the Cub's manners.I never found anything dangerous in the way the Cub flew unless it was terribly abused by ham-fistedness. I have mentioned before how I dog fought with the buzzards...or tried to. I flew the J-3 and the PA-11 and both really great to fly. Maneuverable and forgiving until the airspeed and angle of attack were not compatible and they broke and spun BUT let go of everything and 10 seconds later they were flying again. Or you could do the prescribed spin recovery technique and get flying again. One of the best wake up calls I ever got was when my instructor took me on a check ride in a J-3 prior to solo. On a windy day in the downwind at 900 feet he asked me to check our speed by looking at how fast we were going over the ground. I said that we were scooting along pretty good and he said okay, we can make a nice square turn onto the base leg which he did. The turn developed into a shudder and a quick stall that went into a spin. As he was recovering from the spin he was talking casually all the time with the ground quickly looking very unfriendly. " Now that is how some students kill themselves by flying by GROUNDSPEED and not AIRSPEED and by making steep downwind turns." I never forgot that lesson and flat downwind turns have always been the norm. The USA35B is a good airfoil and does a good job when it is treated right and one has to consider wing loading, span loading, airspeed/ control inputs ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU ARE LOW TO THE GROUND . The NACA 4412 is a wonderful wing section and has been used on a lot of successful airplanes, Aeronca, Navion, etc. It hangs on for dear life in a high angle of attack and stalls with a struggle.

 

Made a last minute decision to head on up to the Arlington Fly-in this Saturday morning. Haven't been in years so camera will be in hand. Good weather. Maybe I'll see some WW1 fly boys.
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WOW ! Is my face red. I inspected both the usual suspects , Cub and Champ, today and I am totally wrong on both. BUT WAIT ! I know why.I had superimposed the L-3 strut with the Champ which is as you said is indeed bolted to the spar. The adjustment is on the lower end of the strut. . The Cub is the same way. I had better resort to inquiring in the manuals instead of messing with the muck in my head.
On the good side of it, I saw the most beautiful airplane ever, a replica Stinson Model O that was built in Cottage Grove , Oregon. Staggering !

 

Dave, you are 100 % correct ! See post # 18 in this thread. My apology. I mixed up two different airplanes with a third.
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