The 348/355 Light Thread (OEM vs GE Nighthawk vs HIR vs HID)

Ok, so here are some preliminary numbers.

Let me start by saying that I was surprised by the numbers below, and I spent a lot of time double and triple checking, making sure I was measuring from equal distances etc. I covered one light while I measured the other to make sure that they did not interfere.

All measurements were taken by moving the meter around to find the “hot spot” of the light. When facing the car the HID looks much brighter, probably due to the white light, as the HIR still looks yellow. When shining the lights on my garage door the HIR is brighter and tends to focus the light more.

The HID lights tend to spread the light more and the HIR creates a hot spot in the visual area, which is probably what helps the increased light reading at distance.

Driving is VERY similar between the two, but it is hard to tell due to the two sides mixing in the distance. The HID side seems to light up next to the car a bit more and is slightly easier to see the road close up, it also tends to make the street signs glow a bit more. The HIR side has a bright spot which seems to make the distance viewing easier.

One thing that I did notice is that the HIR bulbs are MUCH hotter than the HID; I am going to get a meter tonight to test the temp. My car came with aftermarket blue bulbs, so I do not have the factory to do a direct comparison. I have not tested the hi-beams yet, I will probably do that this weekend.

The HID’s are the new Digital kit from Zetronic, 4300k, which are the brightest of the HID. Here are the numbers:

HID Low beams at 12" - 200
HID Low beams at 12' - 33

HIR Low beams at 12" - 300
HIR Low beams at 12' – 40

So the HIR, in a 1999 Ferrari 355, are brighter than the HID. My measurements are more accurate this time than my last measurement, which accounts for the decrease in measured light output from the HID.

I do have concerns regarding the heat from the HIR, and I need to test this versa stock to assure myself that the lens will not be damaged over time.

 

I am amazed by this thread. It's prolly info I can use someday. As for now, um, you guys really drive your cars at night? I mean drivnig any Italian car after dark is a gamble (as if, can I afford to be stranded out here at night?).

Seriously, I remember night drives in Monterey in August on country roads (no lighting). Stock headlighting is pretty worthless and requires slower speeds for safety. If I had those spots in my car, I'd really be flying!

 

I picked up a temp meter at Sears today, $80 so it should be accurate. I will try different angles to be sure.

The drivers brights bulb smokes, I probably got oil on it when I put in the HID's. I need to pull that out.

I do not have the factory tool kit for the bulb.

 

My car with came with aftermarket 100 watt blue colored bulbs for the hi-beams, so that is the point of reference.

100 watt bulbs:
12" - 125
12' - 35

HIR
12" - 250
12' 65

So the HIR's are twice as bright as the 100 watt aftermarket bulbs.

I have removed the HID's from my car and I am going to drive tonight with the HIR low/high beams to see how they work as a system...if it looks as good as I think I am going to sell the HID's and put the money into my interior.

 

This is GREAT stuff!

 

The HIR's are better at distance due to the spotting, but do not make the surroundings glow as much as the HID's. The night driving is MORE than acceptable, and easy to see.

In the end I am going to keep the HIR and sell the new HID kit, with less than 30 minutes useage. Now to start working on the audio system...

GREAT FIND NO DOUBT, GOOD JOB!!!

 

Great Thread guys!

 

That's a cool old light meter! DeJur made some really nice stuff; I had one of their enlargers in my darkroom decades ago. These light meter readings are an interesting way to get a rough comparison...it's tough to control things tightly enough to get a direct comparison, though you can get most of the way there if you put together a stand for the light meter so it stays put for all the back-to-back tests (and, obviously, don't move the car between bulb changes).

"HID kits" are widely available, but are a poor idea, see here for technical details.

The HIR1 (9011) high beam bulbs consume the same power and emit the same heat as the original HB3 (9005) bulbs, and the HIR2 (9012) low beam bulbs consume the same power and emit the same heat as the original HB4 (9006) bulbs, so there's no concern there.

Here's the comparison of these bulbs to standard and high-performance 9005 and 9006 bulbs. A "+50" would be a Philips Vision Plus or GE Night Hawk. A "+80" would be a Philips Xtreme Power. Ratings are nominal:

Low beam stock: 9006, 12.8V, 55W, 1000 lumens, 875 hours
Low beam compare: 9006+50, 12.8V, 55W, 1090 lumens, 300 hours
Low beam compare: 9006+80, 12.8V, 55W, 1120 lumens, 275 hours
Low beam new: HIR2, 12.8V, 55W, 1875 lumens, 875 hours

High beam stock: 9005, 12.8V, 65W, 1700 lumens, 320 hours
High beam compare: 9005+50, 12.8V, 55W, 1830 lumens, 175 hours
High beam new: HIR1, 12.8V, 65W, 2530 lumens, 320 hours

So, compared to standard bulbs, we're looking at 88 percent more light from the low beams and a grand total of 137% more light in high beam mode (49% of which from the high beam units, 88% of which from the low beams). The beam pattern will not change, but there will be considerably more
light within the beam pattern. Of course, your headlamps must be aimed (procedure here carefully and correctly with any bulbs, but especially with these high-output bulbs.

These bulbs are expensive as bulbs go (under $24/ea to over $30/ea), but when the cost is considered over the bulb's lifespan and in the context of their output, they are very cost-effective compared to a tarted-up 9005 or 9006 with blue colored glass e.g. PIAA, Sylvania Silverstar that produces less light than a standard bulb and has a very short lifespan.

The HIR bulbs have a double-wide top ear on the plastic bulb base, to comply with the law requiring different bulbs to have different bases. The extra-wide plastic top ear is easily trimmed or filed to make the bulb fit the headlamp's bulb receptacle. Once that's done — trimming diagram is here — they go directly into the headlamp, and the existing sockets snap on.

There are a few sources for these bulbs. The authorised North American aftermarket distributor is Candlepower. There are a few other guys selling them. Some of them put sales volume ahead of public safety and recommend these bulbs for any/every application originally calling for 9005/9006. That's wrong; there are some 9006 lamps, notably most reflector-type fog lamps, which cannot effectively handle the extra light and just put out a bunch of glare and backscatter when equipped with a 9012. There are those advocating putting 9011 bulbs in place of 9006 bulbs. This is generally a poor idea. The 9011 puts out more light, but has a short life, because it is designed for high-beam use, which comprises about 2% of all headlamp use in North
America. Rated lifespan of a quality 9005 or 9011 is 320 hours, vs. 875 hours for a quality 9006 or 9012. In addition, the shank of the 9005 and 9011 bulbs is smaller than that of the 9006 and 9012. Despite grinding the base tabs, the 9005 bulb rattles around in the 9006 holder. This occurs despite bandaid/half-baked "fixes" like doubling up on O-rings (have seen this suggested on the BMW boards). This improper fit causes a couple of problems: It shortens the life of the bulb due to vibration, causes beam flicker (more noticeable to oncoming traffic than to the driver, this) and it spoils the controlled
breathing of the headlamp assembly, which in damp climates allows condensation to accumulate in the headlamp, eventually damaging it.

Also be careful of the non-Toshiba "HIR" bulbs, which at best tend to be poor copies of the problematic (and discontinued) GE design. These can be identified by the prominent external support wire running alongside the bulb glass. The Toshiba bulbs have internal filament supports.

 

Properly: Halogen Infrared Reflection.

 

Yeah I figured as much, but I was just reposting what GE had on their site.

Oh yeah and all that other stuff was DYNOMIIIITE! Awesome info.

 

Hello everyone
I have been following the HIR debate and feel this may be the best solution for the poor lights in the 550.
However, after checking 550 take H7 or H1 bulbs.
Are there HIR for these types ?
Thanks for your help
Cheers

T

 

I do not do a lot of night driving but when I do the 9011/9012 bulbs definately do the trick. I liked the visibility of the HID at closer distances and the whiter color, but the 9011's project better for greater visibility at distance.

 

That's probably because you're using HID incorrectly. HIDs are not designed to be retrofitted into a typical halogen light housing. They require special optics. That's why the ENTIRE industry has pretty much centered around projector-based HIDs.

I think what you're doing is great, but you did not do a proper test with the HIDs because, even though you had the bulbs and the ballasts, the housing was not appropriate for the bulb.

There must be a reason why the higher-end car industry uses HID projector headlights exclusively. Ferrari, Lotus, Audi, Lambo, Porsche, Infiniti, Lexus, Range Rover, Acura, all 2005 and newer Corvette, etc. etc. etc. etc.

My HID system outputs FAR more light than any conventional halogen, and it can do this because its beam pattern is MUCH more controlled due to the projector and the "light restrictor" plate that crafts the beam more sharply than anything else. If the intensity of HID were not controlled, you'd be blinding everyone with glare. That's why you have to have the right housing, and that's why putting HID bulbs/ballasts in a non-approved housing is illegal. This light output comes with less energy draw (less current required) and lower operating temperatures.


My stance is, a proper projector-based HID system with high quality electronics (Philips bulbs and ballats) is going to outperform the setup you have there any day.

Still, if you eliminate the HID option, what you guys are doing is neat. Just know that if you want the best--you need to reconsider a full HID system. They are not that expensive.

--Mike

 

Glad I got a 355----Those headlights in that car are the brightest lights I have ever had in any car...far as I know they are stock bulbs