Testarossa oil filter collapse

AFAIK, internal collapse of the TR UFI oil filter hasn't been reported here before. We've had a couple of prior reports of the old, soft, D-ring seal blowing out, but the seal on the latest TR UFI filter has been redesigned to match "normal" large oil filters. Any chance that you can post pictures of the failed internal bits?

 

Fram is known to fail, UFI and Baldwin have been good.

 

I run M1 15w-50 in my Euro 308QV, and was thinking about the bypass valve in the Baldwin 253 (that I use). I was curious about a cold oil start/high rpm warm oil operation, if the filter's bypass valve would open allowing un-filtered oil into the galleries.

I've looked at factory flow rate data, but I don't have the technical background to convert the data to real world use. Is filter bypassing something we are experiencing MANY times during the course of normal operation? I know the Baldwin bypasses at 20psi, but any idea what the normal pressure differential would be?

I was also thinking a collapsed filter may be a result of a bypass valve that DID'NT open?

Thoughts?

 

Yes, this in normal with cold oil. The oil temperature that the oil no longer bypasses is a function of the oil temperature, oil flow rate, filter design, and dirt in the filter. Note not all the oil bypasses the filter, some still flows through the filter even when the bypass is open. The oil filtration on the older Ferrari's is quite crude i.e. 212 timeframe, that even with bypassing the oil, it is far cleaner in the newer cars.

Cheers Jim

 

Several years ago (10-ish, maybe), we had a factory authorized dealer do a service on our 348SS. The car was returned to us on a flatbed, and the first time it was driven the oil filter "collapsed" in on itself and starved the motor of oil. The motor was lunched.

Upon tear-down, it was determined that the oil filter had failed, internally, and Ferrari ate the cost of a replacement 348 motor. There were a number of other oil filter failures around that time.

Perhaps, the supplier is having the same problem? I'd take it back to the dealer, tell them their oil filter is defective, demand a refund or a replacement and tell them that FNA just dodged a bullet. FNA needs to know about this and ought to remember the previous failures.

CW

 

There's no bypass valve/pathway build into the TR engine oil lubrication system. No one has posted internal details of the TR UFI oil filter so don't know if it has a bypass valve or not (nor, if it does, whether it is a spring-loaded, resettable design like the Baldwin B253 or a one-time-blows-open-and-stays-open type). I've got an old, used TR UFI filter that I've saved, but haven't yet gotten around to doing an autopsy -- maybe I'll try to move that up my to-do list...

 

If there is no bypass in the engine there has to be one in the oil filter. Basic lubrication design would require it to be there and for it to be the spring loaded type. I would recommend double checking the oil filter part number. If someone accidently gave the OP a filter without a bypass in it, it would easily explain the issue.

Cheers Jim

 

Disturbing to hear about the UFI filter collapsing. After all, isn't this one of the main reasons we pay $40-$70 for these filters instead of cheaper alternatives. That and to be sure that if we lunch an engine due to the fault of a Ferrari oil filter, we have a better leg to stand on than if it was a WalMart filter?

I've been going through some related searching for UFI's specs on the 550's oil filters, which I easily found on the UFI site, along with full technical details, so I saw this thread and decided to have a look, since I already had the UFI catalog open.

The TR filter, (UFI P/N 23.192.02) doesn't appear in UFI's web catalog listing, which skips from a 23.191 filter to 23.194. (See first two pics below which are for the TR filter) Probably to keep people from doing what we're doing, and to protect their supply channel.

The TR and 550 filters are very different physically and probably internally, but just as a point of reference, UFI do state in their web catalog that the 550 filter (their P/N 23.284.00) has an internal bypass set at 1.6 bar (see last pic below)
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

That is why we pay $40 -$70 for UFI filters instead of Wal- Mart.

The only filter I ever found available for my TR was an UFI.


Ago

 

Here are some photos of the UFI 2319202 oil filter internals. As far as I can tell, it has no bypass valve (nor ADV). I've been trying to convince myself that if the inlet pressure was huge and the outlet pressure was zero (i.e., a blocked filter element), the whole filter element would move away from the front plate (i.e., compress the sping at the back) and allow oil to bypass the filter element, but I keep coming to the conclusion that when the inlet pressure is higher than the outlet pressure, the filter element is pressed onto the front plate.
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Steve, I think your first conclusion is spot on; what makes you think differently?

And if you could measure the spring constant of that spring, then the bypass valve setting could be calculated.

 

Because the inlet pressure (which comes in the eight outer holes) acts over the full area of the metal sheet at the back end of the filter assembly (which pushes the filter assembly onto the front plate) -- call this F1; whereas, at the front metal sheet of the filter assembly, the area over which the inlet pressure is acting (to push the filter assembly away from the front plate) is reduced by the center hole area -- call this F2. For all inlet-outlet pressures, F1 is always greater than F2 (and the greater the inlet-outlet pressure, the greater F1 is compared to F2)...

I've sent an email to Baldwin to request some more information about thier BT355 filter (they've got a much better search function on their website now). It's about 3/8" longer than the UFI (and we've only got ~1/2" of extra clearance available), but it has an internal 20 psi bypass valve (and great price ). It seems to be used on the same Ford/New Holland Tractor 400CID diesel engine that the previously-investigated NAPA filter is used on, but, unlike the NAPA filter, the BT355 has 8 (not 6) inlet holes, and (based on the pressure specs of the B253), I'm hoping that it has higher operating and burst pressure specs than the NAPA (which were/are sort of marginal for use on a TR). I'll give a shout if they respond (but I'm guessing that this will rely on the email receiver forwarding my request to the right technical person).
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Looks to me like the TR has a typical pressure-relief valve on the oil pump. It doesn't appear to bypass a plugged filter but I can't remember seeing an engine that does. It's job is to protect the pump and hopefully prevent the filter from bursting.

The filter looks like it might function as a bypass but it's not apparent what pressure would be required for it to occur.

 

Is the BT355 the same thread and o-ring size? If it's a good fit I doubt the length is a problem. Looks like a good alternative to the UFI.

Now if there was one to match the Purflux 197654 used on 348/355/360.

 

Yes, the thread is the same 1-12 size, and the OD is the same 4.25". From the picture the gasket size looks OK, but that's part of the questions that I've asked (ID and OD of their G401 gasket -- although the flat flange on the TR engine is fairly broad so this doesn't have to be super-exact). The pictures also allowed me to eliminate some possibilties because the gasket was/is out at the OD.

If you've got the thread size, ID, and OD, you can do a search on the www.baldwinfilters.com website -- of course, the thread size has to be the same, but it allows you to set limits on how close the OD and length have to be (+/- 1/4", +/- 1/2"). It then pulls up all possiblities with photos and listings of features on each such as ADV, BP, HBP, standpipe, etc.. You also have to know if the filter you want to replace is full-flow or dual-pass, but if you've got an old one to dissect that should be no problem to determine. They've also got really good video tech tutorials explaining bypass (circa 1950), full-flow + bypass (circa 1960), and full-flow (circa 1970), and dual-pass (circa 1990) systems -- I now finally understand the full-flow + bypass set-up used on some of the vintage V-12 F

 

What type of filter is the UFI 191993??

 

I'll get the particulars next time I have one to cut open. The tricky part about the 348 & 355 is that the filter is fitted into a recess so the OD of the canister has to be a certain size.

 

You are mixing thing together here a little bit:

Ferrari PN 191993 = UFI 2316202 = Baldwin B253

and all are full-flow designs -- but the Baldwin B253 is already a well-established alternative so no extra homework necessary

I'm still waiting to hear back (a second time) from Baldwin about the BT355. I received most of the requested dimensional information (which all seems OK) and an initial fuzzy "specification" sheet so had some more technical follow-up questions that the first responder may need help with from their engineering dept. (so I'm not yet disappointed about the delay).

 

Robert Garven has the inside line there at Baldwin from making the retro T shirts, see who his contacts are?

B253 or go home, in my garage....LOL!

If the shops put a UFI in there I am okay with that too.......

 

Dear Ferraristi,

Daymn.....with 10 years of ownership and oil changes at 3000 miles or 6 months, I've never seen this....wow....


Shamile

Freeze....Miami Vice !

 

I'd try contacting UFI themselves and see what they have to say. Their US headquarters are in Duluth GA:

Ufi Filters USA Inc
110 Firestone Pt
Duluth, GA 30097-2077
770-813-0452

And their UK office:

UFI FILTERS spa
2 Temple Street
Keynsham
Bristol BS31 1EG
+44 7712 254 152
e-mail: [email protected]

If it were me, I'd probably start with the UK office - you're less likely to get voicemail or be ignored.