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Testarossa Clutch Problem

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by mjstroven, Aug 27, 2012.

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  1. mjstroven

    mjstroven Rookie

    Sep 19, 2011
    7
    Seneca, SC
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    Marlyn Stroven
    #1 mjstroven, Aug 27, 2012
    I have an 89 TR that continues to lose the free pedal on the clutch after 30-45 minutes of driving. When I bleed the clutch the free pedal returns to normal as does the clutch take up but both digress after a short drive. The first time this happened I removed the clutch and the only problem found was a sticking slave cylinder. Everything was cleaned up and the system was flushed and since then I keep losing the free pedal. Continued driving will result in the clutch starting to slip. Has anyone experienced a similar problem and what was the cure?
     
  2. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
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    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
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    Steve Magnusson
    #2 Steve Magnusson, Aug 27, 2012
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2012
    No direct experience with that, but I'd be suspicious of the flexible line 124840 having collapsed internally and acting like a one-way valve (i.e., when you press the pedal, it generatres enough pressure to force fluid thru the collapsed area and into the slave cylinder, but the return springs don't generate enough pressure to force the fluid back thru the collapsed area -- and the collapsed area gets "tighter" as the engine bay heats up). When you open the bleeder screw after the problem occurs, does a fair bit of fluid squirt out on its own?
     
  3. mjstroven

    mjstroven Rookie

    Sep 19, 2011
    7
    Seneca, SC
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    Marlyn Stroven
    #3 mjstroven, Aug 28, 2012
    The first couple of times that I experienced this problem I did get a nice squirt of hyd. fluid when I cracked the bleed screw and I thought it may be the clutch master cylinder. Before pulling the master cylinder I bleed the system again and got no squirt of fluid. Did this a second time after loosing the free pedal and again got no squirt of fluid which is when I posted a call for help. What I did today was to bleed the system again and after 90-100 activation of the clutch pedal without driving the car, I lost the free pedal. Again no pressure at the bleed screw. Repeated this after bleeding and added another 100 pedal activation after the first 100 and still no pressure at the bleed screw. I then removed the 124840 flex hose and I was able to run a coated 12 gauge wire through the hose with no problem. Reinstalled the flex hose and opened the bleed screw and pumped the clutch pedal 25 times with the catch bottle installed. Leaving the pedal down on the floor I closed the bleed screw (note I have been bleeding the system with an electric vacuum pump and catch bottle). Currently I have about 50% more free pedal than I had before but I am waiting to test drive until tomorrow since it is currently raining. I will post the results after driving tomorrow.
     
  4. mjstroven

    mjstroven Rookie

    Sep 19, 2011
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    Marlyn Stroven
    #4 mjstroven, Aug 29, 2012
    Drove the car today and again after a short drive I lost the free pedal. This time when opening the bleed screw I got a squirt of fluid which is what I would expect. Bleed the clutch hyd. again and after 20 + applications of the clutch, lost the free pedal. Again when opening the bleed screw got a squirt of fluid. If I can find a clutch master cylinder rebuild kit, that will probably be my next step.
     
  5. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
    Consultant Professional Ferrari Technician

    Sep 18, 2002
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    #5 tbakowsky, Aug 29, 2012
    If the clutch is slipping when you loose pedal.. It's time for a clutch. The pressure plate springs are what holds the disc to the flywheel. If the spring are weak, and as temperature increases they no longer can fully return giving you the dead pedal and the slip. A clutch should not slip at all. The only thing the hydraulic system of the car does is provide enough pressure to lift the disc away from the flywheel just enough so you can change gears.
     
  6. lear60man

    lear60man Formula 3

    May 29, 2004
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    Los Angeles
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    #6 lear60man, Aug 30, 2012
    Food for thought: I had a lotus Esprit S4. One of the common complaints was the clutch being weak when the car was hot. The solution was a steel braided clutch cable. Now its the common upgrade. If the clutch is fine....then flat, I would suspect some sort of leak/trapping of fluid.....not a new clutch.

    And yes I had to replace my clutch at 17,XXX miles. Auto Gallery $5400 donation yipeeeeeee
     
  7. mjstroven

    mjstroven Rookie

    Sep 19, 2011
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    Seneca, SC
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    Marlyn Stroven
    #7 mjstroven, Aug 31, 2012
    Clutch does not slip when there is sufficient free pedal but will only get to this point after a short period of driving. Removed the master cylinder yesterday and even though I flushed the system when I removed the clutch and slave cylinder, the master cylinder had a lot of crud inside. Cleaned everything and honed the bore and now am trying to find a set of seals to replace the old ones. Anyone know where I can find the two seals to fit a Benditalia 1409345 clutch master cylinder? Even though the car is 23 years old, it only has 6.5K miles.
     
  8. Melvok

    Melvok F1 World Champ
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    #8 Melvok, Aug 31, 2012
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2012
    Rust can allways appear if the brake oil brake / fluid is not changed every few years ...

    It is hydroscopic / attracts moist ... and that makes rusting of these parts possible.

    So, only 6.5 K miles does not say a thing about maintenance, you witnessed that here ....

    But: you are going to deal with this!

    Please make lots of pics and learn us more about it please ! ;)

    Bye the way .... how is the rest of the clutch assembly and throw-out bearing ?

    And the clutchfluid line(s) ... is that one also cleaned or renewed now ?
     
  9. mjstroven

    mjstroven Rookie

    Sep 19, 2011
    7
    Seneca, SC
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    Marlyn Stroven
    #9 mjstroven, Aug 31, 2012
    I pulled the clutch a few months ago thinking that was my problem. Clutch disc, pressure plate and throwout brg. were all in good shape. I did clean up the slave cylinder, honed the bore and installed new seals. This problem is my own doings since I some how missed flushing the clutch system when I installed slicone fluid 19 years ago. I've done this to all my cars and have had no problems with moisture in the hydraulics.
     

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