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Tesla Roadster

Discussion in 'General Automotive Discussion' started by x z8, Nov 17, 2017.

  1. Natkingcolebasket69

    Natkingcolebasket69 F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    I mean in the end teslas are:
    -the future
    -led by a successful entrepreneur
    -pretty darn good cars for a first try
    -super expensive
    -not meant to be confused sports car specially with ferraris, lambo etc


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  3. JERRYZ

    JERRYZ Formula Junior

    Sep 1, 2004
    635
    Orange County, CA
    Glad to hear you have been bullish. I started buying in Nov 2013 at $31 so it sounds like we were on the same page back then. Elon has long complained about the Tesla Death Watch and yet it's now one of the largest automakers in the world by market cap. I think the window for success is getting bigger, not smaller. Look at the semi. Last month Daimler unveiled their electric semi truck. It is only a class 7 truck and has range of only 220 miles. Tesla last week unveiled their class 8 truck (largest semi on the roads) and it goes 500!!!!!!!!!!!! Most would argue that Daimler Mercedes is the most technological auto company on the planet other than Tesla. And to have a chasm that large between the two companies for a similar product is almost unheard of. There is no battery competition to Tesla and the gap seems to be getting wider, not smaller.
     
  4. JERRYZ

    JERRYZ Formula Junior

    Sep 1, 2004
    635
    Orange County, CA
    This thread is about the Tesla Roadster which is the fastest sports car ever prototyped. When in production it will blow away most performance stats for Ferrari, Lamo, etc. Very much in the same conversation.
     
  5. x z8

    x z8 Formula Junior

    Nov 22, 2009
    655
    Florida
    Full Name:
    Jeffrey
    It’s my understanding that the next generation batteries are substantially lighter. In other words expect a car around 3500lbs.
     
  6. 05011994

    05011994 Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    May 1, 2004
    1,814
    Golden, Colorado
    Not sure about the typewriter and Blackberry analogies, computers and phones are soulless appliances, nothing more. Tesla may be real but I think you need better examples. Computers and phones become worthless as soon as the next one comes along. I am in the wait and see camp, once the big boys get into the game it will be very interesting. I am looking forward to seeing Porsche’s electrical vehicle.
     
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  8. Tcar

    Tcar F1 Rookie

    That's a really silly statement... both computers and phones are very good for years... only a couple percent of the population have the newest computer and an iPhone X.

    Friends' iPhone 5c works great, for instance.
     
  9. Natkingcolebasket69

    Natkingcolebasket69 F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Absolutely not...the chiron, veyron ss, henessy venom, koenigsegg are all faster.
    As far as ferrari and lambo the tesla might take them in the straight line maybe but never on the track.
    Again i keep coming back to my cl65; 220mph top speed, i could take anything on the highway but on twisty roads and track?

    Teslas are not sports car; they just aren’t, they dont corner well, they are heavy and the first roadster was poopoo...just ask jeremy clarkson. They have improved a lot for sure.

    I respect your investment and thread but comparing both is completely not fair.
    U seem to have forgotten the pleasure some ppl have in gasoline power engines, their noise and above all how ferrari handle.

    Have u tracked urs often ?

    Again complete respect ur opinion and electric car (i own one) for commuting and maybe as a GT but not a track car or exotic...Nobody turns around in the street here in the bay area and say wow look at a tesla... everyone got them...exotics have a je ne sais quoi that in my opinion will never be matched.


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  10. 05011994

    05011994 Formula 3
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    May 1, 2004
    1,814
    Golden, Colorado
    It is not a question of if they work, but the resale value is very low once the new version comes out, fine for a device that costs around $1,000 but not great for a $100,000 purchase. Try selling that iPhone 5c or a 3 year old computer and see what the value really is. Phones and computers are very useful tools, but are soulless appliances. Does anyone really miss their previous phone or computer once they replace it was the point. I do think we are entering a period where automotive transportation will be seen as phones and computers, as just appliances to get us from point a and b, the excitement around driverless cars and delayed ownership by the mellenial generation coupled with the success of Uber and Lyft seem to be pointing this way.
     
  11. MalcQV

    MalcQV F1 Rookie
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    Oct 11, 2004
    3,232
    Manchester, UK
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    Malc Holden
    The last post and what I was about to add.
    I've just swapped my Galaxy S (something) for an iPhone S (does it have a number?). Previous to the Galaxy I had an iPhone 5, prior an Android.. yada..yada..zzzzzz

    That is what an EV is and always will be despite what folk here who own them say. I've not owned every make and model of car on that planet but know 90% of them don't interest me and won't.
    I do like the idea of a commuter EV. I'd have an autonomous commuter EV. Just like that phone and my 5 years old TV they are tools and an EV would I think save me a fair amount of money as a regular car.
    I considered a Model 3 and then Musky kept putting the delivery date off, I'm not lending him that £1000 and especially after I saw how dreadful the interior is.

    I know the future is moving away from pure ICE, the UK won't be selling any new (with exception to hybrid which I think might change) by 2030 but I'll be almost 70 and probably won't be able to afford a Ferrari then so I'll take up Photography and Golf! I can forget about cars because they'll all be appliances. Which suits me fine when I'll be broke anyway :D
     
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  13. JoeZaff

    JoeZaff F1 Veteran
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    Aug 5, 2007
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    Joe
    #135 JoeZaff, Nov 22, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2017
    FWIW, I think the biggest BS argument is that Tesla's have no soul. They have no more or less soul than any other modern car. Modern sports cars are simply patronizing jokes. No modern engine needs to backfire on overrun, for example. Modern sports cars are designed to make the owner feel cool... like a "race car driver on the street." What a load of crap. Nothing is authentic...the sound, all the electronic nannies that make you feel saucy but keep you safely in check...Steering wheels designed to look like F1 cars...but with buttons that actually control such important racing functions as adjusting the radio on your overweight and overwrought stereo system. I know, I know...but they are REALLY Fast...well so is a Tesla, so that argument means squat. Yes they handle much better, but Tesla current production is an SUV and a sedan, and each handle well enough for what they are. You can't count the First edition Roadster because that was a compromised design that preceded Musk's involvement.

    Don't get me wrong, I love a lot of modern sports cars, but I don't equate fun with soul. Soul is that unusual feeling where the car begins to feel like it has a personality. In my experience, that is because of a combination of mechanical whirrings, unpredictability (i.e. every drive is just a little bit different for some inexplicable reason) and the requirement that both you and the instrument have to make some compromises for the relationship to work. Most importantly, there must be an unfiltered connection between you and the mechanicals. That begins with the engine and ends with the steering and brakes.

    Personally, I have a BMW I8, it is fun as hell for a myriad of reasons...but Soul, soul... give me a break. If you want a car with soul, you are going to have to go back quite a bit. Pretty much every single old Italian and British car would work...as would SOME german cars. I love modern cars for the convenience, the reliability, the performance, and the safety...but when I want soul and character...I dust off my old 1973 MGB or '79 Zagato, grab my AAA card, get my favorite pair of Persol sunglasses and hit the backroads... with the Lancia...I make it back 50% of the time!

    Flame away...
     
  14. energy88

    energy88 F1 World Champ
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    Jan 21, 2012
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    It is not that the hardware runs out, but that manufacturers quit supporting the software. Example: Windows XP and Apple OS X & Safari, etc. I'm going to be forced to buy a new computer in the next year that can handle the the latest operating systems without bogging down the machine. Same thing has happened to me with cell phones at least twice.
     
  15. JoeZaff

    JoeZaff F1 Veteran
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    Aug 5, 2007
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    Assuming Tesla does not go out of business, there is no more reason to think the Tesla computers will need any more support than that of a BMW or Mercedes. The only difference being the ease with which modifications can be made by this party operators.

    In the bigger scheme of things over the longer term, I think future software updates should not be as big a concern as the reliability of the systems themselves. Considering how incredibly complicated the modern gas driven vehicle is, including the host of sensors, devices, and assorted electronics necessary to insure emissions compliance, performance etc, I seriously doubt that 10 years from now, the cost of ownership of a electric car will come close to approaching that of its gas driven counterpart. The difference between a tesla and a BMW is more in how you interact with the electronics. Teslas are no more complicated than say, my BMW 535, but they are refreshing in their uniqueness.

    Electric cars are very simple by comparison to manufacture... We are talking about an electric motor and a battery. The Battery should give at least 10 years of usable service, likely much more, and by the time they wear down, the cost to replace will be fraction of what it is today. The motors conceivably could last a million miles with minimal maintenance.

    The Tesla electronics may become outdated, but so will my BMW's. There is an equal chance of the "computer" in the Tesla failing as that of my BMW, but the Tesla computer has a very little responsibility by comparison...

    Assuming Tesla survives... from maintenance/reliability standpoint, I much rather own a Tesla Model S in 10 years than a BMW 7 Series or Mercedes S Class---wouldn't you?
     
  16. energy88

    energy88 F1 World Champ
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    Jan 21, 2012
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    I believe auto manufacturers are required to make spare parts available for 5 years after production of a model ceases. Hopefully, Tesla will engineer backward compatible electrical components and not force consumers into a planned obsolescence strategy to boost sales.
     
  17. Natkingcolebasket69

    Natkingcolebasket69 F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    In Europe its 10 years


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  18. Tcar

    Tcar F1 Rookie

    Who buys smart phones or computers for their 'trade-in value'? Or microwaves, or any appliance?
     
  19. 05011994

    05011994 Formula 3
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    May 1, 2004
    1,814
    Golden, Colorado
    Exactly my point they are appliances that are thrown away or in the case of computers paid to be recycled. Fine for a $1,000 purchase, tough to take for a $100,000 purchase. When something is only an appliance how much will an individual pay to have it? I am not saying a Tesla is an appiance, but cars in general are becoming far more appliance like and we have not even gotten to driverless cars yet (coming soon).
     
  20. inox

    inox Karting

    Oct 11, 2017
    103
    It is worthwhile to compare Tesla Model 3 batteries and how much capacity adds to car weight:
    • Standard, 50 kWh: 3549 lb (1610 kg)
    • Long-range, 75 kWh: 3814 lb (1730 kg)
    So addition of 25 kWh weights 265 lb (120 kg)

    Using battery tech from Model 3, Roadster's 200 kWh battery would weight about 2120 lb (960 kg).

    For sure they can build the battery to weight under 2000 lb, which would leave only 1500 lb for the rest of the car. That is too low figure for such a car. After all, they need to build it to handle about twice as powerful engines as in Model S and to withstand speeds of 250 mph while also carrying twice as big battery. Take also in account that convertible car requires additional strengthening of chassis. So, surely in standard form this is going to weight at least 4400 lb (2000 kg) and most probably will be at the same level with Model S (P100D) which weights 4960 lb (2250 kg)
     
  21. Countachqv

    Countachqv Formula 3

    Apr 25, 2007
    2,240
    USA/France
    now thesetweeets just get just too weird
    http://money.cnn.com/2017/11/20/technology/tesla-roadster-might-fly/index.html

    We get grandma who may drive a 1.9 sec 0-60 car and grandpa who will fly over obstacle while junior may drive the flying 18 wheelers... lol
    I cant wait to see the results of all of this.

    Me? i am waiting for the new IPhone that will serve also as an anti-gravitational device so I can put on my superman costume and go to the top of the liberty statues without paying the climbing fee.
    Is there anyone sane left in this world?
     
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  22. x z8

    x z8 Formula Junior

    Nov 22, 2009
    655
    Florida
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    Jeffrey
    The problem with your analysis is...

    They will not be using model 3 batteries in the Roadster. The Roandster at more than five times the price can and will use more expensive next generation battery technology.
     
  23. Zack

    Zack Formula 3

    Dec 18, 2003
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    Zacharias
    You really should try sobriety.
     
  24. phastducati

    phastducati Rookie

    Sep 16, 2007
    5
    Am I the only one excited about the tire sizes of the Roadster... 325/30R21 rears! Glad to see proper tires on an EV.
     
  25. inox

    inox Karting

    Oct 11, 2017
    103
    So how much weight you are expecting them to shed out from batteries?

    In my example I took only 5% off, but my final car weight estimates were with substantially lighter batteries. Even with 20% battery weight reduction it is tough to get the car weight under 5000 lb.
     
  26. davidoloan

    davidoloan Formula Junior

    May 6, 2009
    584
    Full Name:
    David
    You really should think about how heavy this car will be.

    "Not saying the next gen Roadster special upgrade package *will* definitely enable it to fly short hops, but maybe..." Tesla CEO Elon Musk Tweeted Sunday.”

    I hope he will convert the existing Tesla’s into flying cars with a software update.
     
  27. davidoloan

    davidoloan Formula Junior

    May 6, 2009
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    Full Name:
    David
    And Countachqv’s Lamborghini too, maybe via a software update to an iPhone plugged into the cigarette lighter.
     
  28. MalcQV

    MalcQV F1 Rookie
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    Oct 11, 2004
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    Malc Holden
    As above I quite agree that EV's will be cheap to maintain. My CEO's 4 series BMW has so much kit on it is no different to an EV with updates. Apparently he kept coming back to with the rear hatch or boot/trunk open. Some bug in the software because of an option he did not have whereby when you approach the boot/hatch/trunk it opens if you have the keyless key thingy.
    I have only one main issue with them. Like my pal who loves riding horses (and driving) I love everything about ICE and little about an electric motor and batteries.
    That said I'm curious and if Musky can ever deliver Model 3's in the UK sometime perhaps before 2020 I might be tempted. I keep looking at i3's but they look so dorky and ****.
    I'd have to redecorate that interior though of that Model 3, a bit of sticky-back-plastic and Val's old knickers would help (you have to be British and have watched Blue Peter in the 70's).
     

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