Tesla Model 3 - Make or Break ?? | Page 3 | FerrariChat

Tesla Model 3 - Make or Break ??

Discussion in 'General Automotive Discussion' started by F2003-GA, Feb 4, 2018.

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  1. BMW.SauberF1Team

    BMW.SauberF1Team F1 World Champ

    Dec 4, 2004
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    Somewhat related note, but Tesla was successful in sending up their first gen roadster into outer space. I was watching the stream live online and it looked incredible. I wish I was back in central FL and watched it in person like my brother did!
     
  2. F2003-GA

    F2003-GA F1 World Champ
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    My Son and I watched it from Orlando - Spectacular sight
     
  3. F355 Fan 82

    F355 Fan 82 F1 Veteran

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    That is Space X it has no affiliation with Tesla. Musk is the CEO of spaceX and he sent his personal roadster up, but the 2 companies have nothing together. Space X is a private company, the only way to invest in space is via Alphabet stock, formerly known as google, bc google ventures has a 10% stake in space X. Tesla is its own symbol, TSLA, and it has nothing to do with Tesla. FWIW I think Space X is going to be a multi trillion dollar company and the windfall from the 10% stake google owns will be similar to the monster payday yahoo got from their BABA stake.
     
  4. BMW.SauberF1Team

    BMW.SauberF1Team F1 World Champ

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    My bad I just realized I said Tesla was successful in sending it up. I know the two are separate entities, but Elon is involved in so much it gets easy for me to mix it all up. lol :)
     
  5. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    agreed
     
  6. F2003-GA

    F2003-GA F1 World Champ
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  7. F355 Fan 82

    F355 Fan 82 F1 Veteran

    Jul 22, 2006
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    So you post a link and dont want reasonable discussion on it? Got it....

    Again what you're not grasping is look how long it took tesla to come up with a way to come up with the amount of batteries required to mass produce. Porsche can make all the Mission E noise it wants, its just noise until they show a way to come up with batteries and make the car profitably. Tesla is making the cars, profitably, regardless of what bears say, the margins are high but all profits are being reinvested into the company rapidly expanding. At the current juncture we know nothing about what Porsche battery costs will be, they definitely wont be less than Tesla costs, and we dont know how many Mission E they will produce, but my guess will be way less than you think due to battery constraints. Also you never answered my question that if you buy this awesome Mission E, how on earth will you ever go on a road trip in the car when there is no porsche charging network perfectly situated to recharge your car like the one Tesla has? These are major questions. The mission E will be where the tesla roadster was in 2007, cool car but ZERO functionality in terms of long road trips which you can easily do today bc of the tesla charging network.
     
  8. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    tesla q4 report shows a loss of only $3.04/share instead of the expected $3.12/share, and the stock rises by another 1-2%, and all the analysts are bullish.

    i dont own the stock, i dont own the car, but if i had to bet on elon musk against just about anybody or anything else, i would do it with my eyes closed.
    the man has a serious on-time delivery problem, but thats just his mouth running ahead of what the engineers tell him they can do, or what the powers-that-be allow him to do.
     
  9. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    TSLA is 9.5 Billion in long term debt.
     
  10. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    here is my one word answer to that: amazon.
     
  11. NeuroBeaker

    NeuroBeaker Advising Moderator
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    So they're going to keep their expansion going by screwing everyone that works for them? :)

    All the best,
    Andrew.
     
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  12. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    hmmmm....dunno where that came from, but no.
    what i meant was that amazon plowed any and all profits back into the business for more than a decade, until such time as bezos thought he had positioned himself appropriately to reduce that reinvestment pace.
    musk has no need to accelerate the profitability of tesla. he has the money he needs by doing just what he is doing.
    one day though........
     
  13. NeuroBeaker

    NeuroBeaker Advising Moderator
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    I worked for Amazon, briefly, in the UK. Horrible experience. Now I refuse to even shop through them.

    I get your point. It's a good one.

    All the best,
    Andrew.
     
  14. F355 Fan 82

    F355 Fan 82 F1 Veteran

    Jul 22, 2006
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    Musk sets ridiculous targets bc he has to game the stock. What I mean is you have to understand how this work. Tesla needs a high share price so when it does a secondary to raise money, which it needs to do soon, it does so at the highest price possible to minimize dilution. He doesn't really believe his insane goals, he just has to do it to keep people buying to keep share price high so we're not doing secondaries at $200/share or less. Anyways I said Tesla financials are hideous, Im not even a big fan of Musk to be honest. Im a fan of the popularity the brand generates and a fan of simple cars that are fast and functional while being cheap to maintain.
     
  15. F355 Fan 82

    F355 Fan 82 F1 Veteran

    Jul 22, 2006
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    People always through around Tesla debt, can you show me what ford and gm debt is? Just for argument sake.....I know what it is, but I want you to post their debts in here.....
     
  16. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    Enormous and much more than Tesla. Yet F and GM are profitable.
     
  17. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    We'll see. Tesla has it's fans but it's just a manner of time before BMW/Merc and all others will make equivalent cars, but of much better quality. If Tesla keeps producing junk, keep delaying production of their cars, the fanboys will switch to other brands. Don't forget that Petrol engines are for ever getting cleaner and Electric only isn't nearly as clean as people believe. IMO the real future of cars is a hybrid until they figure out hydrogen vehicles properly...and even those will be hybrid I reckon.

    The clock is ticking for Tesla IMO. Musk just said he wants 5K Model 3's per week production by the end of this quarter, something he's been promising for how long now? Will he claim the same for end of Q2, again?
     
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  18. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    well as i asked earlier in this thread.....how much of your own money are you using to bet against tesla?

    the others will make electric cars because governments will oblige them to do so. they will be of good quality. they might even use batteries made by tesla.
    none of that is bad for tesla. the market cannot actually absorb many more (non tesla) electric cars at the rate they are presently being produced.

    your argument for hybrids, is actually one that i espouse. electric vehicles only make sense for oecd countries, and even then primarily in urban areas, and specifically NOT for non-oecd countries, or anywhere considered off the beaten track. but nevertheless, the number of electric cars in the ww fleet will slowly increase; it is inevitable.

    the current rate of model 3 production almost doesnt mean anything except to people who are short tesla stock.
    the longs evidently think everything is fine, hence the stock price where it is.
    and the customers still waiting have not cancelled their orders.
    btw, the beta testing is being done by tesla/spacex/solar city employees who got the first hundred or so made, which is brilliant since they wont be blabbing negatively.

    anyway, i dont own any stock, or any of the cars, but i would not bet against musk.
     
  19. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    forgot to mention, hydrogen cars will likely never be viable.
    the sources of hydrogen either require more energy to isolate the hydrogen than the resulting hydrogen, or come from the oil refining process.
    thereafter, you have the volatility to deal with, which hampers both the design of the cars and the fuel delivery systems.
    as battery tech improves, hydrogen will be abandoned.
     
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  20. BMW.SauberF1Team

    BMW.SauberF1Team F1 World Champ

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    I think there is a better chance at biodiesel and cellulostic ethanol than Hydrogen once more efficient enzymes are made to get that fuel.

    I don't like Amazon for several reasons. One being they normally don't have the products I want (I have to get then on Ebay if not elsewhere). I also don't like how their prices are higher than what I can find in the store (for household products), which doesn't have lines anymore at checkout because of Amazon. My shopping is pretty quick now.:)

    I personally don't get why people like the stuff they carry in inventory...I guess it's the convenience of not having to go shopping in person.
     
  21. F2003-GA

    F2003-GA F1 World Champ
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    No way possible to bet against Tesla the hype will last 3-4 years by then several Manufacturers will have
    Many profitable electric vehicles - Tesla excuses should run out but you never know they might
    Invent new ones :D One reason I doubt Tesla success is that the likes of Uber are not partnering with them
    They are sticking to the traditional automakers. Anyways its all just my 2 cents worth not the Gospel :)
     
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  22. F2003-GA

    F2003-GA F1 World Champ
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    They are competing against the likes of Toyota who have 53 Billion in cash and have sold 10 million
    Hybrid electrics since the launch of the Prius in 1997 So they have vast knowledge and patents in this
    Space - Both Toyota and Mercedes held large amounts of stock in Tesla to begin with but have divested
     
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  23. Kaivball

    Kaivball Three Time F1 World Champ
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    What is Tesla saying for the cash flow break even number on annual sales?

    Kai
     
  24. F355 Fan 82

    F355 Fan 82 F1 Veteran

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    and where will the batteries for all these electric cars you say will happen come from? You keep saying it like its such a sure thing. If its such a slam dunk why haven't other automakers begun making 100's of thousands of these cars since its so easy to do? Why is tesla the only one with a charging network thats growing daily? Im just curious bc you say its so easy everyone will do it........could it be bc like I said EV's dont work with the current model in place and franchised dealers taking all the profits on sales and that not working in the EV world? Could it be? Why isn't GM making a gazillion of these EV's right now. I know electric isn't better for the environment, I dont care about that, I only care about simplicity and lack of maintenance.
     
  25. F355 Fan 82

    F355 Fan 82 F1 Veteran

    Jul 22, 2006
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    Thats awesome, the tesla model S has been out since 2012, why has toyota even bothered getting in the space if they're so dominant and capable of so much? The toyota brand has real power doesn't it, when was the last time anyone waited outside in rural indiana to order the new camry? Tesla had 500,000 deposits 3 years in advance of the model 3 launch.
     

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