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TCU chip swap dyi questions.

Discussion in '360/430' started by tony2fingers, Dec 20, 2011.

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  1. tony2fingers

    tony2fingers Rookie

    Nov 22, 2011
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    #1 tony2fingers, Dec 20, 2011
    I read and re-read the "how to upgrade a 360 f1 to cs tcu" sticky and still have a couple questions. If anyone has done this, please chime in and offer some advice please.

    Im assuming that the dyi expects you to have a cs tcu to read the info off and reprogram to the new chip that gets soldered on.

    Problem is i don't have a cs tcu to read off of.

    I have a 01 f1 spyder, with older (non flash able) tcu. I also have a spare tcu off a 2000 f1.

    My plans are to do swap on the and chip of the spare (2000) at home, drive the car out to an independent or dealer, then swap the entire updated tcu unit and program and upload there. if its all honkey dory, then possibly swap out the chip in the original tcu i had just removed and put it back in the car and do the flash again. I would then have a spare tcu with upgraded and chip and the original complete tcu unit that my care came with.


    My question is that if i don't have a cs and chip to read off of, can it be upload via sd-2 with the new and chip installed? Im assuming thats what their doing with the guys at gemballa and and selling on ebay at $1200 for the upgrade. They mention you need an sd-s to set the pis after you receive their unit, but my real question is can i swap the chip myself, bring it to an sd-2 and upload the cs software before i have them adjust my pis settings.

    Second question is that i know 2002 and up tcu are software upgradeable via sd-2 and obd-2 port. is that because it has the new amd chip in it similar to the one they are telling us to install in the sticky? or something else in the entire tcu allows for re-flashing asides from the new amd chip. I ask because the directions in the dyi is vague about referencing the "newer" style tcu as the whole tcu unit, or just the tcu as related to the upgraded ship.

    Third question is who has an sd-2 or any other diagnostic machine (if there is one) in the bay area (san jose) that can do the software flash and do the pis settings.

    I pick up my car this new years, (birthday present for myself) and plan to do quite a bit of work on the car as soon as i get it home. First off would be the timing belts and 30k belts service. clutch and tranny would be next. and 6 bolt and f1 pump would follow.
    I never drove a f1 before i test drove this one, and even as a newbie, the tranny shift are pretty soft/slow for such a fast, exotic car. it was the real only thing i was disappointed about, even without previous experience on a f1 car before so i really had nothing to reference it to. that being said, it is an 01 with 17k miles and probably a worn clutch, so hopefully after i get the new clutch and tcu installed, should be a dream to drive.
     
  2. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
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    #2 360trev, Dec 20, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    First off - sounds like your actually trying to 'clone' a CS TCU.

    Disclaimer: I would strongly advise against this as it is actually illegal to do if you do not continue to own an original CS TCU (broken or otherwise). The techniques are to allow an individual to backup their own ECU/TCU so that in the event if fails they can convert an old cheap TCU from another vehicle with your backed up software with the knowledge learned.

    The approach explained therefore is purely for backup/restore purposes and NOT for cloning (to get rich), as such any companies or individuals who try to use this as a method of upgrading old software to new software are in fact infringing the original copyright owner whom own the rights to the said software.

    Its also not straight forward and there are complications around doing it such as the version of the hardware pcb. Different revisions of the boards are basically not compatible with each other so only a handful of tcu firmware's are interoperable. Basically to what's already been written there are 3 steps.

    1. Identify the PCB version, remove both covers and find the AMD flash chip, 29f200bb.
    2. Carefully De-solder the original chip
    3. Back it up onto a spare few $ chip (equivalent to backing up a music CD to your PC).
    4. Re-solder (personally prefer to put a piggyback adaptor so you can just push in a new chip).

    The last few bytes of the firmware dump contain the stored information about number of hours of operation, etc. and will be 0's on a virgin TCU. On a used one they will change from backup to backup (with use of the car) so you need to make sure your aware that a mileage discrepancy will be flagged if they are not cloned across and checksum's reset (beyond the scope of this posting and getting even more complicated).
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  3. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
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    #3 360trev, Dec 20, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  4. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
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    #4 360trev, Dec 20, 2011
    As far as I am aware the later TCU's share the same AMD flash chip but the software was upgraded to support remote upgrade over OBD-II port.

    The older TCU firmware software did not contain the upgrader software so didn't know how to upgrade over OBD-II hence desoldering was the only option available. Once the new software is upgraded then if you know the access codes [burned into the firmware] you can indeed reverse engineer the obd-ii negotiation sequence and learn how to write a piece of software that can communicate via obd-ii and your PC obd-ii dongle to do things such as set PIS without an SD2. This is waaay beyond the scope of this posting but it is possible. Da Vinci is one of the SD2 clones which must have learned how to communicate with the TCU in the way described above.
     
  5. eric355

    eric355 Formula 3
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    #5 eric355, Dec 20, 2011
    Trev, I am still working on it :)
    So far I have been able to upgrade an early TCU (176552) to a mid-2002 TCU (193263)... for my own pleasure of course!
    It works great on my car. It doesn't make it a flashable unit but it should allow to adjust parameters with a SD2. Though, I have not validated that.

    And, NO, swapping or duplicating the EEPROM was NOT sufficient to have it to work ... ;)
     
  6. rustybits

    rustybits F1 Rookie
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    #6 rustybits, Dec 20, 2011
    The checksum can be cleared with an sd2 anyway.
     
  7. dbonvillain

    dbonvillain Formula Junior

    Dec 2, 2012
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    #7 dbonvillain, Jan 11, 2013
    Eric & Trev - Been reading your posts and a buddy of mine (very good RE) is about to try and get my 430 scuderia TCU to come back to life and take code. We are thinking there is a chance we can just replace the flash chip and be good to go, but it sounds like you guys are the ninja's with that stuff.
    any advice would be deeply appreciated. He should have the marelli box tomorrow.
     

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