Tameing a 930

you don't tame a 930, it tames you

I think it's a combination of power delivery and setup. the early turbos were pretty peaky in their power delivery, and the cars were still set up to oversteer (911s got much more understeery starting probably with the 964).

I'm sure there are some good setups out there with sway bars/alignment/etc.

also, in a 911, the worst thing you can do when it gets sideways is jump out of the gas; you gotta steer and throttle modulate your way out of it (ask me how I know )

 

alot of weight in the ass + turbo lag + INEXPERIENCED PILOTS = widow maker. when i was looking for one, there were many cars where the rear qtrs had been fixed, due to the car swapping ends and contacing something. you will need to look closely at the flares to ensure they are the same contour side to side. some repairs were obvious (poor) and some were well done.

 

Unforturnately a smaller turbo doesn't = less lag. i have a k27 on mine which is larger than the stock unit, and between that and some other mods, it drops the rpm full boost kicks in.... stock is about 3500 rpm an w/ my set up it is more around 3,000, which helps tame it somewhat if you want to call it that.

i suggest if you want more info, i would go to the pelican 930 board. there is a world of info from guys who know these cars in and out (much more than I) that track and/or race them, or just have hot rods for the street.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-930-turbo-super-charging-forum/

 

From page one of the Porsche FAQ.......

6 – Is the 911/930/993/996/997 really hard to drive at the limit ?

Isn’t almost every car ?

Think about that, you are revving at close to the maximum RPM on the tach, the suspension is loaded up laterally as you are cornering hard, you are on a familiar road with little margin for error when you have to suddenly steer out of the way of an object, brake, and reduce power in less than one second, all the while dramatically upsetting the physics of the car.

You better be good, and lucky……….I’ve had to do that in an early 930 Turbo, a car with a deadly and undeserved reputation IMHO. I almost lost it completely, but as everything went into slow motion I kept myself together, my memory clicked in, and I steered out of it (I was 45 degrees sideways coming out of a corner at 120 KMH heading down a straight, with the engine screaming, and the tires smoking for about 100&#8217 because I did what some famous Porsche racing driver said to do in a book, which was “don’t lift off the gas pedal and steer”……..the exact opposite of what my brain told me to do based on my years of driving front engine rear wheel drive V8’s……..I was lucky more than I was good, and I have no problem admitting that, because, I should not have been driving like that on this particular road. So was the 930 Turbo a bad car because of it ? Hell no……..it did what it was supposed to based upon it’s design limits under those circumstances, and as a result I drove away unscathed except for the color of my shorts. If you are driving at 9.5 out of 10 near any cars limit………you are in the danger zone and it doesn’t matter what your name, or your ability is, we all crash eventually when “we” screw up, not the car.

If you are nervous, that is good, go to a controlled environment and practice on a skidpad and/or with professional instruction beside you. You will be amazed what these cars are capable of in terms of limits you never thought possible. Limits that surpass many a driver’s abilities.

 

I don't think the 930 is a particularly difficult car to drive--even quickly--on the street. It might be a widow-maker if you're an idiot driver, though.

The power comes on rather suddenly due to the turbo lag. Modern turbos and exhausts can reduce that lag and improve drivability. But you can never really eliminate it. If you're a ham-fisted driver, that turbo rush coming on mid-corner can cause power-on oversteer, which can then lead to going off the outside curve of the road backwards. If you instinctively jump off the throttle, that only makes your accident happen even quicker.

The 911 rear-engine layout makes it a bit more difficult to catch a car that's exceeding the limits of physics. Whether that's due to power-on oversteer or oversteer due to trail-braking, once you're losing it that big lump of an engine way back is coming 'round with a lot of inertia. Again, if you're not ham-fisted I don't think it's a problem. Porsche dialed in a lot of understeer into the car to protect the average driver from these tendencies.

Really, the biggest problem I think a 930 driver faces is the fact that the car is so competent. It is very easy to go fast in that car. Well, maybe not from a stop what with turbo lag. But once you're going in a 930, speed builds very easily. And when you lose it at speed, no matter what car you're driving bad things can happen.

 

it is all in the power delivery and not controlling it correctly. i have to drive my 88 911 differently than the 930 due to the difference in power delivery between the 2.

 

Funny story:

So I was instructing a guy in a stock Miata at a local road racing circuit. This guy was a newbie but at least he came to the track 'ya know, so I respected that. I happily jumped in and instructed from the passenger side. Anyhow we get going and make a few laps around. He has the general idea of how to use his mirrors and he was pretty safe. I start to have him pick up the pace and "feel" how the car responds to the extra speed. We approach the next 180 degree right hander and I note that he is not slowing down. I say calmly "this is a lot of speed for this corner & those street tires" but he heads into the corner unaffected. We get into the entrance of the turn and he jusssst barely turns the wheel to the right... We drive right off the pavement and fly through the grass. The whole time he just barely turns the wheel but never slows down. We go alllll the way around this 180 degree right hander (about 100 yards off the pavement) and then he re-enters the track surface at the exit of the turn. I say to him "what were you thinking?"

He says "I don't know."

My point is that it really does not matter what car it is. Some people can't tame even the most passive of cars. This guy in a 930 would be a lethal combo. You know your pal better than we do, you tell us if he is a good fit.

BTW - When I had my succession of turbo 911's I had them because they could kill me. That is why I wanted them. But I never felt like they were a widow maker.

 

I knew a pretty neat guy, he was always buying & selling Porsches. A 930 got him. 2 things to remember in a 930, full boost you need to be going in a straight line, and be careful letting hard off of the gas under a full boost. The 930 will raise up in the back. If your in a 930 & someone does that, get ready to dance.

 

I had a 79 930 and it was a blast. It had bigger turbo, intercooler, headers and 1 bar wastgate. The boost kicked i n at around 2200rpm rather than stock 3500rpm. It was easy to drive with the boost coming in earlier. You had to prepare to grap another gear because it reved so fast. There are a ton of parts for that car. I redid the suspension with different torsion bars and shocks anda 18 inch rims. Amazing car. I would convert it to modern fuel injection which there are good kits out there. Car interior is also very comfortable with alot of room and good vision. Sold the car a few years ago because had too many cars, but I do regret it. You can easily make this into a 475hp car without Ferrari prices.

 

We owned an '85 911 Turbo (essentially, the US version of the 930) for several years. Obviously, that was fairly late in the production run and had numerous changes from the earlier models. Some of which were designed to make the model more drivable (different turbo). The bhp ratings did increase as high as 330bhp, IIRC, and by today's standards, that's fairly modest. But, there are no driver aids. So, that's raw power bridled only by the driver's ability.

I never found it to be an ill-handling car, but it does have it's quirks. Off boost, the car's a pig. On boost, it roars to life. Just make sure the car doesn't come on boost in the middle of a wet corner. Smooth inputs will be rewarded, just as thinking ahead will be.

CW

 

Nice thread!
I remember reading about how the 993 GT2 was built to kill people, and that's when I fell in love!

A friend of mine got a turbo sideways on the Bay Bridge in MD. This particular car was modified and the gentleman said it was the scariest thing he'd ever driven.

Gotta love the German's sense of humor.

_J

 

Very, VERY cool thread .

Had 6 911's so far, been CRAVING a 930.

Had several freinds tell me the same thing about them : they are widow makers.

if i do get one, I am going to go to Roebling Road and learn how to handle the car, with an instructor.

But getting one is still very high up on my list.

Perhaps some of the snap oversteer can be tamed out with the modern do do-dads we now have.

 

Someone (either EVO or Top Gear) said the GT2 was "Porsche's quickest way to kill yourself yet"

 

I have a friend with one and we go to Roebling too, I sold my Porsche so still waiting to get another so I can hit the track again, I don't track my F430. But getting back to subject his 930 is really fast, he thinks faster than my Ferrari. I think he is got 650bhp and he drives the car hard and really fast on the track, he says that it isn't a widow maker, just good judgement and know the ins and outs. We are instructors with the PCA but he doesn't like to instruct. Anyway if you get one, post it up and maybe we will meet at the track and he'll give you some pointers.

 

I think Smith&Wesson are still trying to catch up.
_J

 

That's like shooting a bazooka with blanks. Embrace the fire young Skywalker.

_J

 

the 930 was/still is deemd a widow maker if you didn't know how to drive it. i am not an experienced pilot for these and so i have a temendous amount of respect (and some fear) if i don't apply the power properly in a spirited drive. there are many other cars i can drive quickly w/o much thought...this one i can't. one of the big resaons folks like these cars is the way it drives i.e. the tremendous power when you get on full boost ad the entertainment it provides. w/ my set up, at a 40 mph roll on, when i drop a gear and get on full boost, the rear squats and the front lifts and it goes like a rocket. when i have given some of my F car, Lotus or other buddies a ride they just flip. if i wanted more even power delivery and an what i beleive is an "easier" car to drive, i would have looked at a 996tt...

 

I LOVE my 930 Targa. Its a modified 450hp beast. I scared the crap out of myself with the car when I got it, but after some DE and track time, I learned how to drive it properly. I think with modern tires (I switched from the stock 245 width rears to now 315's) its extremely capable. Having no power steering, ABS, traction control, active suspension, ect. makes it the ultimate drivers car. Once you get used to thinking ahead, and giving the car smooth input its truly amazing. At the track I can go full throttle at a turns apex and anticipate the lag so when the car is pointed straight it explodes out of the corners. The feeling of timing it right and blasting away is unlike anything else. Throttle modulation takes some practice but it does work, when I was new to the car it felt like an on/off switch but now I can fully control my boost and power-on with the pedal on the right.
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

315's?!?!

what size wheels?

do you have to run spacers/roll the fenders/tub the wheel wells to get tires that much bigger than stock to fit?

 

I used to work at an independent Porsche shop and got to drive my fair share of 930 Turbos (and 964s, 993s, 996s and 997s). In the words of the shop manager "ya gotta aim it." Those words still stick with me every time I get to drive a 930 Turbo. You'll never get away with any sort of ham-fisted throttle-jockey driving. I knew a few guys who got out of Corvettes and into 930s and ended up folding them to the doors soon after they bought their "Porsh".

They actually make a much better street car than the 911. Very docile around town and excellent passing power on the freeway. Quiet inside with good off-boost manners, albeit not much power. But, not a really great canyon carver or exciting to drive without a good straight patch of road in front of you.

The nice thing is, there is still solid demand for a "930-type" car as evidenced by the current GT2 and GT2RS. Those two cars drive exactly like a 930, just do everything at a much higher speed.

 

One other funny observation: My 87 Slopenose is a Widebody Turbolook car, as in, not a turbo. However, seems these cars do in fact have a bit of a reputation ( real Turbos that is). I find people showing respect or even some reverence on the road to the car, even when I am just puttering around town with it. To me a 930 Slopenose Turbo is an ICON of the 70s and 80's. As much as say the Countach and Testarossa is. People remember these cars, if they ever encounter one.

I would HAVE to have a SlopeTurbo if i ever get a real 930. i had a wonderful moss green euro 84 3.2 Carrera, that was an amazing car to have fun with. I cant imagine the fun ( and fear!) a real turbo would provide with so much more power.

My Dino and my Camaro are sold. Next I am selling of my old 4 speed Trans Am(1978).

Prices for 308s seem to be up, which is just unexplainable given the economy, and its winter. I refuse to pay mid 30's for a car with all the shortcomings a 308 series car has. I would rather have a 930, or a newer Maserati 4200.

Too many cool cars out there to get mired into a "3x8".


So to you 930 owners and pilots, I salute you, and would love to read some more tales of the road.